Jonah and Margaret Howell

[Talacharn]

Wanting to fill out my family tree, I am interested in following Jonah and Margaret Howell. They are my paternal great-great grandparents, with their daughter Margaret marrying Thomas Williams in 1855. In a very small area, there are two called Jonah Howell and both married a Margaret. The one I am interested in married Margaret Powell, and the other married Margaret Lewis.

Christening: Margaret Howell . Female (great-great grandmother)
Birth: 19 Jun 1834 . Christ: 2 Jul 1834
Parents: Jonah Howell . Margaret Powell
Philadelphia Independent, Laugharne, Carmarthenshire

Marriage: Parish Register St Sadwrn Llansadwrnen Carmarthenshire
10 Jan 1818
Jonah Howell (Eglwys Cymyn) Batchelor . Labourer . Signed X
Margaret Powell . Spinster . Signed X
Witnesses James Welsh . Thomas Meriman  . ? Mess?

1841 Census: Hill Mountain . Llansadurnen, Carmarthenshire
Mary Howell . 13 . Carmarthenshire
David Howell . 11 . Carmarthenshire
John Howell . 8 . Carmarthenshire
Margret Howell . 7 . Carmarthenshire
Thomas Howell . 5 . Carmarthenshire
Elizabeth Thomas . 10 . Carmarthenshire
Mary John . 8
John Sare . 1
HO107 . Piece/Folio 1382/4

I have information about Mary John and John Sear.

1851 Census: Gosport St . Laugharne
Jonah Howell . 60 . Head . Labourer
Margaret Howell . 59 . Wife . Gathers Cockles
Margaret Howell . Daughter . 14 . Laugharne
John Sarn . 12 . Nursed Child
Thomas Morgans . 4 . Grandson

1861 Census for Laugharne/Llansadurnen was destroyed.

There are two deaths that add to the confusion:
Burial: Jonah Howell . Llansadurnen, Carmarthenshire
Birth: 1780 - October 1863
Death: Jonah Howell . 80 (1802). Line Number 229
Jan-Mar 1882 . Carmarthen . Volume 11A . Page 543
In finding the burial for the older Jonah Howell in Llansadurnen, I now wonder if they could be father and son? There is around 20 years between. I looked around the graveyard but could not find his stone, though large areas have been allowed to run wild in the name of conservation.
 
Then I find the 1881 census record. It is after the 1782 Jonah has died. The births fit the 1802 Jonah, but not the profession. Could he have taken over his father’s business? Is there another Jonah Howell?
1881 Census: Laugharne (Civil Parish), Carmarthenshire
Jonah Howells . 80 (1801) . Married . (Sailor/Pauper) . Bankyfelin, Carmarthenshire
Margt Howells . 83 (1798) . Married . Llanybri, Carmarthenshire
RG11 . Piece/Folio 5395/72 . Page 11

If anyone can offer some rationale to my search and confusion it will be much appreciated.

[ColC]

Just checking these records to see if I have the correct two Jonah’s?

Jonah HOWELL Twin of James   Baptism   28 May 1782   Pembrokeshire   Llanfyrnach : St Brynach : Parish Register - Father Phillip Howell

Jonah HOWELL, abode Eglwys Cymmun, Bachelor to  Margaret POWELL, Spinster
Marriage 10 Jan 1818   Carmarthenshire Llansadwrnen : St Sadwrn : Parish Register

Llanfyrnach, Pembrokeshire is 12 miles N of Eglwys Cymyn, Carmarthenshire

HOWELL, JONAH    (1787)   76 
GRO Reference: 1863  S Quarter in CARMARTHEN  Volume 11A  Page 345

Family Search
Jonah Howell   Burial 1 October 1863 Carmarthenshire, Wales, United Kingdom Age 83 - Birth 1780 


*****

Jonah HOWELL   Baptism   01 Dec 1833   Carmarthenshire   Abergwili : Calvinist Circuit Register : Other Transcript

Parents Benjamin Howell, Labourer & Frances John, abode Dyffryn - Llangynog

Child born in Llangynog. Mother was a spinster before marriage

Jonah Howells   Burial 19 July 1896 Carmarthenshire, Wales, United Kingdom Age 63 Birth 1833 

HOWELL, JONAH       63 
GRO Reference: 1896  S Quarter in CARMARTHEN  Volume 11A  Page 586

olin

[ColC]

I wonder if this is the confusion?

Freereg

John HOWELL to Margaret LEWIS, both single

Marriage 15 Mar 1821 Carmarthenshire Laugharne : St Martin : Parish Register

Family Search

Joha Howell to Margaret Lewis

Marriage 15 March 1821
Laugharne, Carmarthenshire, Wales, United Kingdom


The marriage does not seem to appear on FindMyPast or Ancestry but maybe someone might be able to check that?

Colin

[Talacharn]

Thanks ColC that is them.
I will look into the Abergwili baptism as I had not gone that far back, but a probable relative. These two generations are causing plenty of confusion.

Until writing my post, I had not considered them as father and son, but thinking of Welsh naming patterns he could be the first born male.

I have now found a baptism I would associate with Margaret Lewis:
Other Transcript Bethlehem Welsh Pwll-Trap Carmarthenshire
Birth: 08 May 1823 . Bapt: 18 May 1823
Anna Howell . Female
Father: Jonah Howell . Mother Margaret Powell
But; as they married in 1818, they could be living near Pwll-Trap before moving to Llansadurnen. It is the area where Jonah Howell Snr. was based. It would seem both families were using the Bethlehem Welsh chapel in Pwll-Trap.

The two marriages I have. The second was found on FreeReg as it was not on Family Search:
Marriage: 10 Jan 1818 . St Sadwrn Parish Register Llansadwrnen
Jonah Howell . Bachelor . Eglwys Cymmin . Margaret Powell . Spinster

Marriage: Joha Howell . Margaret Lewis
15 Mar 1821 . Laugharne, Carmarthenshire . Page 37
Affiliate Publication Number 189
This marriage seems to be second time around for him, but no further information has been transcribed.
I have found several of their children in Bethlehem Welsh Pwll-Trap.

There is this marriage:
Marriage: St Canna Parish Register Llangan Pembrokeshire
12 Jul 1806 . Jonah Howell . Anna John . Spinster
I am finding possible births, but the father’s name is only recorded as Howell with no mother named.

LLANGAN, a parish in the district of Narberth and counties of Pembroke and Carmarthen; on the river Taff and 2 miles WNW of Whitland rail station.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/6371
Somewhere I have a record, but cannot locate it at present, that he was born in Henllan Amgoed, so the same area.

I am looking into the sailor link. It looks like the boat was handed down the generations. Jonah Jnr was a labourer and then became a sailor. My great-grandfather Thomas Williams was a labourer who later became a mariner. It looks like they become sailor/mariner when the previous generation has died. Could this be the same boat?