CRESSWELL look up please

[spendlove]

Hi Bev,
Visited local library at Belper today, searched the 1861 Census
RG9/2508 to 1510 which includes Horsley, Morley, Smalley, Mapperley,
Kilburn, Horsley Woodhouse, Holbrook, Denby  
NO LUCK.

On the 1871 Census RG 10/3581 Pg 19 Item 21 I found the following:
DENBY
Cresswell  Joseph     Head       M  40  Coal Miner    Denby
   "            Sarah Ann Wife        M  44                          "
   "             George     Son         U   20     "               Horsley Woodhouse
   "          Joseph         Son         U    5   Scholar          "             "
HUNT    Mary Ann       Dau          U   24  Servant          "           "

Is this the family, but Hannah aged  abt. 18 is away working?  Possibly
in Ripley which is where she appears to be in 1877?
It would also appear that Sarah Ann has been married before.
Have looked for a Mary A Hunt on IGI, no bpts. but there is an entry which indicated her father was James Hunt mother Sarah Ann Riley.
Sorry my local Library do not hold any Ripley Census films.
Have you considered an appeal in Ripley & Heanor News and their sister paper Belper News, www.ripleytoday.co.uk/contactUs.aspx
 Coal Miners moved from pit to pit to get work, so it is not unusual for them not to be in the place where they were born.  
In 1871 living next door  RG10 3581 Pg. 19 Item 22  are
CRESSWELL  Joseph    Head  M     77  Retired Miner      Denby
   "                 Sarah      Wife   M     70      -                     Crich
May be the parents of Joseph.

Spendlove

[Beverley Nicholson]

Dear "Spendlove"
It would appear that this is the family- IF Joseph was her father.  I originally thought he was, but on her marriage license, she states that James is her father.  
Hannah was 25 when she became pregnant and married Henry Walters.  
I wonder if she was married before- I've never heard anything like that, but who knows? Twenty five is rather old to have a first child back in those days, is it not?
Unfortunately, I dont know if Hannah had any siblings.  The people listed in her obit are all her own children and grandchildren.  
Did I send you my gedcom?  Would you want to look at it?
Oh, I sent in an inquiry to the newspaper- thanks for the idea.
Have a nice evening, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Bev
PS The English rain is headed this way for the rest of the week.  What a lovely sunny day it was today!

[Meriel]

Hi Beverley,

Well you have a lot of info on Joseph and Sarah Ann but you just need to confirm that they are Hannah's parents. She never seems to appear on the census at home with them...but that is something I can check tomorrow in the library for you.

Can I ask how you first came to think that Joseph and Sarah Ann were Hannah's parents?

Meriel

[Beverley Nicholson]

Hi Meriel,
That, I am not sure; I apologize.  I am very festidiouis about citing sources etc. and I have very little on this one.  When I saw the marriage record of Henry and Hannah, she listed her father as James Cresswell which threw me all off!
Coincidently, Hannah's mother's name is Sarah Ann.  Hannah names her first born Sarah Ann.
I apologize - I've searched through my hard copy data looking for references and have found nothing.  Hummmmmm- maybe a little mouse typed it into my computer data base.
Thanks again for offering to help me with this. It will be very interesting to see what you come up with.  In the meantime,  I see where rootschat offers a polling inquiry.  I was thinking of putting up a poll that says, "Who is Hannah's father"  option 1 James  option 2 Joseph...
The winner gets the little mouse that lives in my computer!
 
Have a nice day, Meriel and I will talk to you soon.
Bev

[trystan]

Beverly,

It would be good fun if you did start a poll like that !

Trystan

[Beverley Nicholson]

LOOK WHO IS IN DENBY SUNDAY SCHOOL-

From:   (*)
Date:   2004/07/09 Fri PM 06:23:49 EDT
To:   DERBYSGEN-L@rootsweb.com
Subject:   [DBY] DENBY SUNDAY SCHOOL 1872
 
Hi list,
           the following Teachers and girls attended the Sunday School at Denby
in 1872 (Jul 16th )

TEACHERS
F M STENSON
Sarah WOODHOUSE
Agnes LAND
Ann PALFREYMAN
Louisa STRELLEY
Elizabeth WESTON

BIBLE CLASS
Agnes ABEL
Matilda BROWN
Alice CRESSWELL
Jemima CRESSWELL
Sarah BROWN New Row
Sarah Ellen BROWN
Mary Ann CRESSWELL
Mary BROWN Bottle Bk
Mary BROWN (Williams)
Elizb WESTONS(john )
Mary Ann SMITH
Eliza ORME
Maria BROWN (Charles)

TESTAMENT CLASS
Ann BROWN
Jemima ANNABLE
Hannah CRESSWELL
Alice PALFREYMAN
Emily BROWN
Mary Ann BRIGGS
Mary CRESSWELL
Elizabeth BROWN

more to follow.

mike
________________________________________

AND SO THE HUNT GOES ON!
Happy Weekend everyone!
Bev
 
(*) Moderator Comment: name and e-mail address of another person removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page:  http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php

[spendlove]

Hi Bev,
Your Cresswell search is bugging me, I will also take to the bottle. Decided to
look at this another way.
You have a Mary Ann Hunt living with Joseph & Sarah Ann Cresswell 1871 Census,shown as daughter.
I have found her 1851 Census HO 107/2144 Horsley Woodhouse  Folio 307 sch. 18:-
Crooks  Joseph    Head Widower  54   Nail Maker     Horsley Woodhouse
Hunt   Ann            Servant   "         24                        Denby
  "     Mary Ann     Dau of Servant     4                        Horsley Woodhouse
Mary Ann Hunt, Birth Registaration  Belper December Q 1846 Vol 19 Pg.426
If you compare these details with those I sent for 1871, Ann Hunt and dau Mary Ann Hunt, are now living with Joseph Cresswell Ann has also added Sarah to her name.  So Sarah Ann has been married before.
There is an item on IGI, not confirmed by register entries, that Sarah Ann was a Riley before her first marriage.
1841 Census Denby H0 107/188/12  FOLIO 25
Riley   ?(cannot read)    40    coal miner              Derbyshire
   "     Hannah                40      -                           Not born Derbyshire
   "     Sarah                    15  Cotton Framework  Derbys
In this census only, being listed as age 15 ment you could be between 15 & 20 years of age.  Is this Sarah Ann? would have been about the correct age for the 1851 census (ann) above.     
Joseph Cresswell appears on the Census Returns as follows:-
1851 H) 107/2144 Folio 432 Sch. 25
Cresswell  Joseph    Head    M     57    Coal Miner     Derby
 "               Sarah      Wife     M     50        -                Crich
"       **     Joseph    Son       u     19                         Denby
"               Robert      Son       u     17                           "
"               George     son               11    Scholar           "
"             Mathew      son               9          "                 "
1861 RG9/2508  Folio 135 Sch 26  Denby
Church Street
Cresswell  Joseph    Head       m   67     Coal Miner         Denby
  "              Sarah     Wife         m   60       -                      Crich
  "    **     Joseph    so n          u   30 'Sinker' coal miner  Denby
  "             Mathew   son           u   19   Coal Miner              "
Robert & George are now married ( I have their entries if you think this is your family)
By the next census 1871 Sarah Ann and Joseph are living together.  It would appear that they married after 1861, they may not have married until much later or never married.
In the 1841 Census of Horsley Woodhouse there is
Hunt James    45                   
"      Elizabeth  50
"      James       20 (could have been aged 20 - 25years)
"      Elizabeth    8
Did this James Hunt marry Ann or Sarah or Sarah Ann Riley?, had a Daughter Mary Ann Hunt, died or left (is this why Sarah Ann did not get married when you thought she had) Sarah Ann Hunt then married Joseph Cresswell. 
Hannah was born 1853 but was her father James Hunt?
Think you need a request for James, Sarah Ann & Mary Ann Hunt on 1861 Census
possibly Ripley or Pentrich.
This is very complicated, but it would explain why you are having problems.
Could not think of any other way of doing this.  Please read and re-read to understand.
Spendlove
 

[Beverley Nicholson]

Dear "Spendlove"
I am printing your hypothesis as I write this and will sit and review what you have surmised and get back to you.  I must say, this is going to be a challenge- even for a reading/literacy teacher!!!

Thanks,
Bev

and:
Dear Trystan (list monitor),
I am still not getting email notifications of postings to this list.  I happened to find this myself without any notice via email. Could you please check into this again?
Thanks,
Bev

[Beverley Nicholson]

Dear "Spendlove",
OK- the "teacher" part of me has been hard at work.  What I think you are saying is that Hannah Cresswell is possilby Hannah Hunt (daughter of James Hunt) and that her biological father somehow left the family and her mother aka Sarah, Ann, and sometimes Sarah Ann, later lived with, and eventually married Joseph Cresswell.
Am I right?
The question now is, as you say, to check the 1861 census for this family.  In the 1871 census, you found Sarah/Ann/ Sarah Ann age 24 living as a servant w/ Joseph Crooks (a widower age 54) along w/ her 4 year old daughter, Mary Ann.  Hannah, of course hadnt been born yet.  The question is, where was JAMES HUNT at this time??   If he was dead, then he could not have been Hannah's father, because she was not born for two years later.
Now, in America, this makes for a great story line...lol- Hollywood would definitely have this old widower man, Joseph Crooks as having a relationship with his young servant lady, Ann/Sarah/SarahAnn. 
But for some reason, Hannah lists James as her father on her marriage licence.  Where is he in 1871?  Has he died or left his wife and young daughter.  Did he reunite w/ his wife and have Hannah 2 years later???
Oh, what a story this could be for the soap operas!
Yes, you are correct, I need to find the 1861 census.  In the little hymnal/devotion book that I have of Hannah's she writes on the inside cover; H Cresswell Ripley 1877.

Can you get a gedcom?  Also, I'd love to take a digital photo of this little book and send it to you. If you would like me to do this, please email me your email address.  My address is (*).
Thanks, and have a nice week!
Bev

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page:  http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php