Author Topic: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700  (Read 700 times)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #18 on: Monday 22 January 24 10:43 GMT (UK) »
So may be relevant (as posted on your other query)

Marriages Shipdham;

John MUNNYMENT/Mary THORPE ? 24 May 1708

John MUNNYMENT, Widower* to Ann MITCHEL, Widow  17 Feb 1712/3


So if married twice Mary must have died before 1712/13
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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Essnell

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #19 on: Monday 22 January 24 12:28 GMT (UK) »
   Thank you David . One day I will completely understand this old writing.  Getting more used to it the more really old docs I have to read.   

Now Trish, Yes, these are all important . How they relate I yet don't know but it all has to mean something.

These last pieces, I agree with what you say about Mary.  If this is the same John who was my John's father in Shipdham  then I have is  a good candidate for Mary his mother [Mary Thorpe] and then she dies about 2-3 yrs later.   

    I myself feel that this is a real possibility even though Shipdham is some 18 - 20 miles from  Hoxne and a few less from Diss.  Hoxne is as far as I can see a village a few miles from Diss.   
The question is why would someone in that time travel so far.     Did people do this then. I would have thought so. 

 Thank you for looking those up , I really do appreciate everything everyone finds. 
Essnell.




Offline coombs

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #20 on: Monday 22 January 24 13:16 GMT (UK) »
The 1741 settlement comes under Hoxne parish records, and has John Monument, Sarah his wife, with John, William and Lydia their children, Diss, Norfolk, 30 March 1741. I guess it means they were living in Hoxne by then, as they ahd done for some years, and had become legally settled there in 1741, and they were no longer beholden to Diss.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Essnell

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #21 on: Monday 22 January 24 22:26 GMT (UK) »
Yes coombs, that's how it was. 

I have a question :   I am wondering about how this legally settled  approval worked.   

John Married Sarah  : in Hoxne 1735   So looks like they stayed there as John1736, William 1738  and Lydia 1740 were also born there.   Then they got legal settlement there from Diss.  So at some point some how they were in Diss?    Or was John in Diss  or Hoxne on his own first. or simply never living in Diss.   
To get legal settlement did people have to reside and become established in a place to get this legality.  I am aware that Taxes play a part in this too. 
Just trying here to reconcile the how and when of this couple and link it to John of Shipdham. 

Sorry I feel like I am rambling.   
Essnell.


Offline Ili1133

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 23 January 24 01:28 GMT (UK) »
The family were apparently in Diss in October 1741 as John took on an apprentice there and paid duties. His later apprentices were taken on in Hoxne.

 
The 1741 settlement comes under Hoxne parish records, and has John Monument, Sarah his wife, with John, William and Lydia their children, Diss, Norfolk, 30 March 1741. I guess it means they were living in Hoxne by then, as they ahd done for some years, and had become legally settled there in 1741, and they were no longer beholden to Diss.

Maybe the familyís move was the other way round, i.e. they moved to Diss in March 1741 and the certificate was issued by the overseer in Hoxne. The parish would keep a copy of the certificate in case of challenge.

Thereís a helpful explanation on Genuki (Sorry! Amended - should read ĎNorfolk Archivesí) on who needed to have settlement certificates and when they were issued.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sy6/

coombs mentioned in an earlier post that Hoxne was a centre for linen weaving into the 18th century and it could be that John and Sarah went to Diss (which is a large, prosperous market town) when the trade started to decline and returned to Hoxne some years later when there was a new opportunity. There could also be family reasons behind some of the moves - maybe John went to Hoxne in the first place because he had family connections, inherited some land or something similar. The connections could be on either parentís side.

Another move - Johnís (presumed) father in Shipdham probably wasnít from that parish originally - there are no Moniments in the Shipdham parish records before John married Mary.

It wasnít typical for people to move far for work but it certainly happened. Norfolk and Suffolk had a relatively good road network, and there were lots of social/family ties around the region. One of my own family moved 20 miles west to east across Norfolk in 1740 when he completed his apprenticeship, to a village where he had distant cousins.





Offline Essnell

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 11 February 24 09:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi Trish, Ili1133 and everyone, 

My accomplice in this search has been doing a bit of his own looking and has found the Parish Register image for John Moniment and Mary Thorpe's marriage in 1708, Shipdham. The image as you may be aware is very faint and Mary's last name was hard to read.   Thorpe is a good read on that.

We have not got the second one as yet.
 
But John's death in Shipdham was also found 1729  Feb 27th.     That's all I have on this part for now but  I really do think that this is our next generation back. 


So next is Mary's death as well as that second Marriage. 
So these records are getting to be very relevant indeed. 

  Quote   ilI1133:   Another move - Johnís (presumed) father in Shipdham probably wasnít from that parish originally - there are no Moniments in the Shipdham parish records before John married Mary." 
That is a really interesting piece of information. So John was apparently from elsewhere. 

More thinking on all of these and some searching to do.

Essnell.   





Offline Ili1133

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 11 February 24 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Essnell,

Thanks for giving us the update. Iíve just sent you a PM.

Offline Essnell

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #25 on: Monday 12 February 24 11:46 GMT (UK) »
Hello Ili1133,

Thank you.  I have sent you a PM.

Offline Essnell

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Re: Mornement in or around Hoxne and Southery C 1700
« Reply #26 on: Monday 12 February 24 12:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi All, 

Mary Thorpe's baptism :   25th June 1682, Topcroft, Norfolk. England
Parents: John Thorpe and Jaine his wife.

Transcription and Image. 
On Family search, Norfolk Parish Registers. 

Might be helpful some where.
Essnell