Death of Friedrich Guiseppe Wilhelm Lieder, Liverpool

[rutht22000]

I am trying to find the death of this man.

He married Jessie Ada Hart on 14 April 1892 at St Luke, Formby.  They had a son Frederick William on 18 December 1892 in Liverpool.

On 3 July 1897 Jessie gave birth to another son Arthur, whose father was Arthur Lumb Crawshaw (1863 - 1901).  She was about 6 weeks pregnant with their daughter Dorothy when ALC died. As far as I can ascertain Jessie and Arthur were never married.  Arthur had previously divorced his first wife Clara Roper in 1886 and I can't find a divorce for Jessie and Friedrich.

Jessie then married Arthur's brother Victor (as Jessie Ada Lieder) in 1904 in Birmingham and had 3 more daughters with him before he died in 1912.

Now I can't find out what happened to her first husband Friedrich.  It does not seem she was free to marry Arthur (of course they could just have decided not to marry), but then goes onto marry Victor.

I wonder when Friedrich died or if he disappeared off the face of the earth and she could not marry Arthur.

Thank you 

[Mabel Bagshawe]

There's a Fred Lieder b c1866 Gateshead/Jarrow on a couple of Liverpool crew lists of 1888/89. I wonder if he headed off to sea again?

That chap appears to have been registered as Frederick Joseph (ie Guiseppe) with father Frederick William/Wilhelm from Prussia

Wonder if this is him and new family living in East Ham in 1901?

Frederick Leader    32    b Gateshead. Stevedore
Lilian Leader      26  b Middlesboro
Frederick Leader  5 months b North Woolwich
Charles Smith    22   Boarder

Death
Frederick Joseph Leader
Age    68
Burial    15 Jul 1935  St Mary Magdalene, East Ham

[Mabel Bagshawe]

In a bizarre twist he has a daughter called Jessie Ada in 1911! An Ancestry family tree has him as Lieder/Leader

[rutht22000]

Thank you!

That one is definitely worth looking at.  And the daughter Jessie Ada is quite strange and odd if that is him.  2 kids both called Frederick and a daughter named after his estranged wife 

Does explain why Jessie never married Arthur though if she was technically still married.

[rutht22000]

There's a Fred Lieder b c1866 Gateshead/Jarrow on a couple of Liverpool crew lists of 1888/89. I wonder if he headed off to sea again?

That chap appears to have been registered as Frederick Joseph (ie Guiseppe) with father Frederick William/Wilhelm from Prussia

Wonder if this is him and new family living in East Ham in 1901?

Frederick Leader    32    b Gateshead. Stevedore
Lilian Leader      26  b Middlesboro
Frederick Leader  5 months b North Woolwich
Charles Smith    22   Boarder

Death
Frederick Joseph Leader
Age    68
Burial    15 Jul 1935  St Mary Magdalene, East Ham

Just revisiting this and I've found the baptism for his son with Jessie Ada and it gives his occupation as warehouseman but that doesn't necessarily mean he was not at sea from time to time; just not when his son was born.

Appreciating that this is Liverpool but Jessie had a number of uncles and cousins that were at sea - all either as Stevedores or Stewards.  I think I will have to find Jessie's first marriage certificate and see what information is contained in it about Friedrich's father to see if he matches the one in Gateshead who seems to be a florist.

There is a marriage in Southampton to Lilly in 1899 so if it his him Jessie and Friedrich are both bigamists....Just actualy noticed that his son from his marriage to Jessie is using Leader in 1911 as is Jessie when she marries the second Crawshaw. Too many coincidences...

Thank you 

[wilcoxon]

Jessie Ada Leader mmn Smith.
Birth reg June qtr 1911 West Ham.

Is the the right one, perhaps the Lilian Leader in 1901 is the sister of Charles Smith. 🤔  or not.

[lancsann]

possibly a red herring

burials at sea
Name   Private F G Leader
Death Date   5 Jul 1900
Death Place   Winburg, Lejweleputswa District Municipality, Free State, South Africa
Cemetery   Winburg Old Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place   Winburg, Lejweleputswa District Municipality, Free State, South Africa
Has Bio?   Y
URL   
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/217497560/f-g-leader

[wilcoxon]

1911  married 12 years , 5 children born 4 still alive
Frederick Leader 43  dock labourer b Gateshead
Lilian Leader 35 b North Ormsby Yorkshire
Frederick 10
Ernest 7
Mabel 3
Elsie 1
All children b North Woolwich Kent.
All children are registered with mmn Smith.

Any help.

[wilcoxon]

1911  married 12 years , 5 children born 4 still alive
Frederick Leader 43  dock labourer b Gateshead
Lilian Leader 35 b North Ormsby Yorkshire
Frederick 10
Ernest 7
Mabel 3
Elsie 1
All children b North Woolwich Kent.
All children are registered with mmn Smith.

Any help.

Forgot to add address
47 Park Terrace, Albert Road, North Woolwich, East Ham