Author Topic: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?  (Read 516 times)

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 17 January 24 19:00 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Jack.

I like the consistency in his age across the censuses and at his death, which point to him being born in 1786. And although the Calverley connection after he left the Army is a strong one, that might just have been because his wife came from that area (see the 1851 Census where her birth place is Calverley and his is Bradford). My instinct would be to trust the census entries where his birth place is shown as Bradford, and then look at the enlistments which match those two moderately reliable facts (place and year of birth) and draw up a short list of possible regiments. Since he was a Chelsea pensioner, and the Chelsea records are fairly complete, they would be my starting point, and then try and reconstruct his military career from that angle. So for instance that rules out the Royal Marine (not a Chelsea pensioner), the 53rd Regiment / 4 Garrison Battalion man from Clayton (wrong place and year of birth), and the man born in Calverley c. 1788 who went into the 3rd Guards (and in any case was not discharged until 1826), and so on.

Also, while I agree that it is most likely that he joined a Yorkshire or West Yorkshire Regiment, don't discount other Regiments. All the Infantry were recruiting hard at that time and I have no doubt many will have gone to the densely populated area around Leeds / Bradford / Halifax on recruiting tours so he might have been persuaded to join one of them. What I don't think he will have done is to travel hundreds of miles to join a regiment which was only recruiting, much further away, say in Scotland or Ireland. However do not be misled where it says he was attested at such and such a place. That will probably be the depot of the regiment and not the place where he was actually recruited. The Chelsea records frequently don't mention where a man was recruited.

At the end of that process you still won't be certain you have the right regiment, but it might allow you to start digging deeper into your candidate regiments, for instance by researching the various Regimental museums, histories and associations to try and find further confirmation to support your working hypothesis. Also keep in mind the muster rolls I mentioned before. They won't contain any additional identifying information to confirm or displace your theory, but they may just throw up a detail which might lead you to another source. For example, although leave was not very common, if he was granted leave the roll might just refer to where he went on leave.

And if you haven't done so already, might I suggest trying to track down an image of the marriage register for St Wilfred's in Calverley for 17 Jan 1821. It is just possible that the actual register might contain some detail about his service career which the transcribers ignored. The baptismal records for the first two or three children might also reveal something, although I suspect that, as you mention, the only record will be of his occupation as a wool comber.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 17 January 24 19:21 GMT (UK) »
By the way, I know you said you are still trying to sort the various possible baptisms for WB, and I'm sure you already have the one for 17 April 1786 in your sights, but have you seen the image of the Bishop's Transcript on Find My Past (Yorkshire Baptisms collection) where is says that particular WB's father was William Booth, clothier of Shipley?

Offline JackYorkshire

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Re: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 19 January 24 12:44 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Jack.

I like the consistency in his age across the censuses and at his death, which point to him being born in 1786. And although the Calverley connection after he left the Army is a strong one, that might just have been because his wife came from that area (see the 1851 Census where her birth place is Calverley and his is Bradford). My instinct would be to trust the census entries where his birth place is shown as Bradford, and then look at the enlistments which match those two moderately reliable facts (place and year of birth) and draw up a short list of possible regiments. Since he was a Chelsea pensioner, and the Chelsea records are fairly complete, they would be my starting point, and then try and reconstruct his military career from that angle. So for instance that rules out the Royal Marine (not a Chelsea pensioner), the 53rd Regiment / 4 Garrison Battalion man from Clayton (wrong place and year of birth), and the man born in Calverley c. 1788 who went into the 3rd Guards (and in any case was not discharged until 1826), and so on.

Thanks, that's really helpful, I didn't realise Chelsea pensioners only applied to certain types of service.

At the end of that process you still won't be certain you have the right regiment, but it might allow you to start digging deeper into your candidate regiments, for instance by researching the various Regimental museums, histories and associations to try and find further confirmation to support your working hypothesis. Also keep in mind the muster rolls I mentioned before. They won't contain any additional identifying information to confirm or displace your theory, but they may just throw up a detail which might lead you to another source. For example, although leave was not very common, if he was granted leave the roll might just refer to where he went on leave.

Thanks for that, there are so many things to consider. Searching through the musters for the 84th 2nd, it seems none of them are digitised from 1804-1820. I've checked a couple for the 1st, but they don't seem to be available either.

And if you haven't done so already, might I suggest trying to track down an image of the marriage register for St Wilfred's in Calverley for 17 Jan 1821. It is just possible that the actual register might contain some detail about his service career which the transcribers ignored.

When you say the register, do you mean the West Yorkshire Marriages and Banns (see below) or something else?

Offline JackYorkshire

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Re: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?
« Reply #12 on: Friday 19 January 24 12:57 GMT (UK) »
By the way, I know you said you are still trying to sort the various possible baptisms for WB, and I'm sure you already have the one for 17 April 1786 in your sights, but have you seen the image of the Bishop's Transcript on Find My Past (Yorkshire Baptisms collection) where is says that particular WB's father was William Booth, clothier of Shipley?

Do you mean this one?


Offline JackYorkshire

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Re: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?
« Reply #13 on: Friday 19 January 24 12:59 GMT (UK) »
I previously been thinking this one was most likely:
10 May 1785 to John and Ann Booth, Idle in the parish of Calverley.

Unhelpfully, William has children called Sara Ann, John and William (in that order along with various others).

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 19 January 24 15:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jack,

Yes and yes to the marriage register entry and the baptism for the WB son of William of Shipley. They are the ones I was referring to.

Obviously you have to go with your instincts when it comes to selecting the correct baptism - or indeed the possibility that he wasn't baptised at all or that his baptism hasn't yet been transcribed.

One slight quibble with the 10 May 1785 baptism (or is it the birth? I'm not sure) in Idle/Calverley is that it would make him 56 at the time of the 1841 Census (which was on 6 June), not 55. However he would be the correct age (just) in the two subsequent censuses which were on 30 Mar 1851 and 7 Apr 1861 so in each case before May when his birthday was.   It would also mean that if he was the man who joined the 84th Foot on I August 1804, his declared age of 19 would be correct. The fact that the baptism was in a Nonconformist Chapel ties in with the later baptisms of his children in the Primitive Methodist Chapel in Bradford, although that could reflect a later conversion to Methodism which had nothing to do with his own baptism or religious upbringing.

The other thing I noted was that in the marriage register entry he made his mark. That should allow you to exclude a couple Army enlistments where the soldier signed his name. However it leaves the man who joined the 84th (amongst others) on 1 August 1804 in the running.

Offline JackYorkshire

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Re: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 19 January 24 19:30 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Andy I'm leaning in your direction with this, but I'm going to write it out here in one place to see if I can get clarity.

William Booth - 3rd Foot Guards

Examination of Invalid Soldiers:
Age: 38 on 13 Dec 1826
Complaint: Asthmatic
Born: Calverley, Bradford
Trade: Weaver
Height: 5'8
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Blue
Complexion: Fair
Rank: Private (from Waterloo Medal Roll)


William Booth - Royal Marines

ADM 158 - Admiralty: Royal Marines: Description Books:
Age: 20 on 24 Aug 1813
Born: Idle, Yorks.
Trade: Boatsman
Height: 5'2
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Complexion: Fresh
Enlisted: Bolton


William Booth - 52nd Foot

UK, Regimental Registers of Service 52nd Foot:
Age: 25 on 10 Apr 1809
Born: Coverly (Calverley?), Yorks.
Trade: Clothier
Height: 5'8
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Hazel
Complexion: Dark
Previously: 2nd W.Yorks (moved 10 Apr 1809)


William Booth - 84th Foot - 1st Battalion

UK, Regimental Registers of Service, 84th Foot Soldiers, 1st Battalion:
Age: 27 on 12 Jun 1811
Born: Bradford, Yorks
Trade: Labourer
Height: 5'7
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Hazle
Complexion: Dark


William Booth - 84th Foot - unknown Battalion

Regimental Registers of Pensioners, Soldierīs Service Documents 84th Foot
Age: 19 on 1 Aug 1804, 'about' 35 on 13 July 1820
Born: Bradford, Yorks
Trade: Labourer
Height: 5'
Hair: -
Eyes: -
Complexion:  -
Rank: Private
Service: 1 Aug 1804 to 12 Sept 1820
Condition: Chronic pulmonia
Signature: X

The William Booth I'm looking for:
Age: 55 on 6 June 1841, 65 on 30 Mar 1851, 75 on 7 Apr 1861 80 on 19 Jul 1866 - so he was most likely born 19 July 1785 - 30 Mar 1786.
Born: Bradford, Yorks

Summary:
William Booth - 3rd Foot Guards - still in the guards after the marriage and children - no.
William Booth - Royal Marines - seems he was born in 1793 and wouldn't get Chelsea pension - no.
William Booth - 52nd Foot - seems to have been born in 1784, would get Chelsea pension? - maybe?
William Booth - 84th Foot - the 1st Battalion - seems to have been born in 1784, could be the same as the other William Booth in the 84th - maybe?
William Booth - 84th Foot - unknown Battalion - seems to be born 1785, could be the same as the other William Booth in the 84th. - maybe?

Maybe it's none of them? Is there anyway I can search the Chelsea records specifically for pension payments? I don't seem to be getting anything on Fold3 (7-day trial) or National Archives.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Was William Booth always in the 2nd battalion of the 84th Foot?
« Reply #16 on: Friday 19 January 24 20:23 GMT (UK) »
It depends on which Chelsea records you have found. Some of the ledgers show the rate on the left hand side of the page immediately after the man's name, and the years paid are set out across the page. The district ledgers tend to list payments on one page per year, and again the rate is usually quoted though this time it is to the left of the man's name.   
Also where you have the man's service record the final decision on his pension is usually recorded on the last page, so for instance with Pte WB with the number 741, discharged from the 84th Foot on 12 Sep 1820 after 16 years and 165 days, he was awarded 1s 1d per day. FindMyPast don't transcribe the daily rate, so you can't search for it on their site.