Who's in Charge of this Genealogy Shenanigans in the UK

[BushInn1746]

I could access any Archive in the UK, provided I took recent printed proof of who I was with my address on the same AND my Passport (or a photo Driving Licence for those who hold one).

If you come from France or elsewhere, you'll also need evidence of your temporary address of where you are staying, as well as your usual home address.

The British Library and others have suffered losses, items removed or cut out and managed to prosecute one offender, so you'll need to prove who you are.

Many of our ancestors names might be missing in C of E and records, due to being Nonconformist, Roman Catholic or refusing to register, until it became Law.

The only archive which were awkward with me in my 30 years and said I could not visit as they had no facilities for visitors and would not photograph a Register (even for payment) was a Roman Catholic Diocesan Archive in Yorkshire, who admitted to holding a late 18th Century Register (not online), that I wanted to see.

Subscription websites only have a fraction of the records that exist hidden away in Archives.

Ancestors names appear in many old Manorial records, Land Owner, Probate, Property and other records and are not always listed in the usual run of the mill type records, you find online.

Not everyone in England and Wales was C of E, or was baptised C of E!

When E & W Civil Registration started in 1837, some still didn't Register Births.

You had to Civil Register a Death from 1837, to get a Certificate of Burial, to pass to your Undertaker. I have an 1845 example of one of these.

Mark

[mac77782]

I'm confused?!

I only have 8 great-grandparents - the parents of my grandparents.

Have you tried using FreeBMD, FreeCen, FreeReg or FamilySearch?

BTW British Genealogy is a website that I used to be a member of. I stopped using it when it was taken over by Forces War Records.

Morning!!! So those 8 grandparents have 16 parents - those 16 have 32 and so on It doubles each time.  Ye Family Search I have tried - just seems an immense task online compared to France.  I'm hoping I can get somewhere at the Archives place

[mac77782]

I can access any Archive in the UK, provided I take recent printed proof of who I am with my address on the same AND my Passport (or a photo Driving Licence).

If you come from France or elsewhere, you'll also need evidence of your temporary address of where you are staying, as well as your usual address.

The British Library and others have suffered losses, items removed or cut out and managed to prosecute one offender, so you'll need to prove who you are.

Many of our ancestors names might be missing in C of E records, due to being Nonconformist, Roman Catholic or refusing to

The only archive which were awkward with me in my 30 years and said I could not visit as they had no facilities for visitors and would not photograph a Register (even for payment) was a Roman Catholic Diocesan Archive in Yorkshire, who admitted to holding a late 18th Century Register (not online), that I wanted to see.

Subscription websites only have a fraction of the records that exist hidden away in Archives.

Ancestors names appear in many old Manorial records, Land Owner, Probate, Property and other records and are not always listed in the usual run of the mill type records, you find online, not everyone in England and Wales was C of E, or was baptised C of E!

Mark

Aw thanks Mark.  Ye I mean I'm not attacking people here - just the way we do Genealogy is crazy.  I was born here so it's all good although I have both passports.  So you just rock up then and you can look through the books? Dont get why on earth you cant do this online.  It's crazy.  If you're English I think you will also fair better as I think the clearances has had a lot to do with missing parish records.  But even the ones that are available,, for example my friend from school her mums sent me this book which is basically a book detailing the parish records, how they were recorded, where, and what dates are available etc.  But I'm yet to find out where they are I'm presuming it's Edinburgh.  Just makes no sense to have one page at a time available.  My god it would cost an absolute fortune just using Scotlands People.  Aye.... we know how to rinse folk of cash in this country.  Anything for a quick buck.  'Yes first minister perfect, lets charge £6 quid a doc'  . Even the certainty after finding one feels off.  In France you know for sure it's them as the parish records are so detailed.  Here you're like welllll.. it could be them not 100% sure but lets go with it lol. Even my friends recently given up who I was hoping would get into it and we could have a hobby together but she thinks the same as me - shes like its like my family dont exist at all 

[BushInn1746]

It is an immense task to get your lineage if they didn't have a C of E Baptism, or the Register / Bishop's Transcript is missing, or did not Register an England & Wales Civil Birth (from 1837).

Look at my Avatar for my 19th Century family, my descendants had married descendants of my ancestors from both sides of no Baptism gap circa 1786.

I found four early 20th Century funeral reports in newspapers, with my distant family relatives (funeral attendees) listed and their relationships / Yorks villages and could prove what my Grandmother was suggesting 50 years ago, to me when I was a boy.

My Grandmother's mentioned a type of incest, albeit very distant!

Mark

[mac77782]

I can access any Archive in the UK, provided I take recent printed proof of who I am with my address on the same AND my Passport (or a photo Driving Licence).

If you come from France or elsewhere, you'll also need evidence of your temporary address of where you are staying, as well as your usual address.

The British Library and others have suffered losses, items removed or cut out and managed to prosecute one offender, so you'll need to prove who you are.

Many of our ancestors names might be missing in C of E records, due to being Nonconformist, Roman Catholic or refusing to

The only archive which were awkward with me in my 30 years and said I could not visit as they had no facilities for visitors and would not photograph a Register (even for payment) was a Roman Catholic Diocesan Archive in Yorkshire, who admitted to holding a late 18th Century Register (not online), that I wanted to see.

Subscription websites only have a fraction of the records that exist hidden away in Archives.

Ancestors names appear in many old Manorial records, Land Owner, Probate, Property and other records and are not always listed in the usual run of the mill type records, you find online, not everyone in England and Wales was C of E, or was baptised C of E!

Mark

Aw thanks Mark.  Ye I mean I'm not attacking people here - just the way we do Genealogy is crazy.  I was born here so it's all good although I have both passports.  So you just rock up then and you can look through the books? Dont get why on earth you cant do this online.  It's crazy.  If you're English I think you will also fair better as I think the clearances has had a lot to do with missing parish records.  But even the ones that are available,, for example my friend from school her mums sent me this book which is basically a book detailing the parish records, how they were recorded, where, and what dates are available etc.  But I'm yet to find out where they are I'm presuming it's Edinburgh.  Just makes no sense to have one page at a time available.  My god it would cost an absolute fortune just using Scotlands People.  Aye.... we know how to rinse folk of cash in this country.  Anything for a quick buck.  'Yes first minister perfect, lets charge £6 quid a doc'  . Even the certainty after finding one feels off.  In France you know for sure it's them as the parish records are so detailed.  Here you're like welllll.. it could be them not 100% sure but lets go with it lol. Even my friends recently given up who I was hoping would get into it and we could have a hobby together but she thinks the same as me - shes like its like my family dont exist at all 

Back again Mark.. just reading your message again.  I will be pondering this at work you seem like you know what you're doing.  So archives here then.. hm wellll my grand parents were from Harris and Lewis so they will def be Free Church of Scotland.  I'm aware the records only go to I think late 1700s for both.  Absolutely gutting.  More than likely to do with the clearances.  But there are oral accounts for the last 60 years that have been recorded which my cousin managed to get hold of so I have quite a lot.  But of those available years it's like ridiculous trying to find anything online.  I guess from your message I'm def going to get further at the archives place in the city.
Thanks Mark!
Chris

[Pheno]

Individual privacy springs to mind here.  Maybe the French didn't mind every aspect of their lives being recorded and maybe the English did.  I don't suppose either nation took that stance with a view to making it easy or difficult for generations to come to find them.

Where's the enjoyment in just sitting at a desk poring over online documents and finding your ancestry without much of s struggle.

Part of the thrill in England, for me at least and I am sure for many others, is finding that elusive record after years of searching and being able to add a further generation.  Genealogy is not a hobby to be completed in 6 months.

Pheno

[mac77782]

It is an immense task to get your lineage if they didn't have a C of E Baptism, or the Register / Bishop's Transcript is missing, or did not Register an England & Wales Civil Birth (from 1837).

Look at my Avatar for my 19th Century family, my descendants had married descendants of my ancestors from both sides of no Baptism gap circa 1786.

I found four 20th Century funeral reports in newspapers, with my distant family relatives (funeral attendees) listed and their relationships and could prove what my Grandmother was suggesting 50 years ago, to me when I was a boy.

My Grandmother's mentioned a type of incest, albeit very distant!

Mark

Lol I cant open it but looks cool just getting ready for work here.  That's funny.  That's bound to happen though when you go back.  I've met a guy in France we are cousins like 5 or 6 times from both sides - mental.  Ye I just think they havent organised it well enough.  For the amount of data there is Jesus I can touch type 60 wpm it cant be that hard to get it online.  I think France uses a place in Morocco they transcribe it all and it's indexed online.  If they're going to hold on to it for 100 years to then not be released accordingly makes no sense.  Well I guess it is if you go to the archives place but it just makes the task a lot lot harder. 
Chris

[rosie99]

To the person that said.. why should ' tax payers ' (( really hate when people come out with that tripe )) money should be spent on publishing historical records

I do not dispute that historical records should be published but you want them available online and free of charge

[BushInn1746]

Aw thanks Mark.  Ye I mean I'm not attacking people here - just the way we do Genealogy is crazy.  I was born here so it's all good although I have both passports.  So you just rock up then and you can look through the books? Dont get why on earth you cant do this online.  It's crazy.  If you're English I think you will also fair better as I think the clearances has had a lot to do with missing parish records.  But even the ones that are available,, for example my friend from school her mums sent me this book which is basically a book detailing the parish records, how they were recorded, where, and what dates are available etc.  But I'm yet to find out where they are I'm presuming it's Edinburgh.  Just makes no sense to have one page at a time available.  My god it would cost an absolute fortune just using Scotlands People.  Aye.... we know how to rinse folk of cash in this country.  Anything for a quick buck.  'Yes first minister perfect, lets charge £6 quid a doc'  . Even the certainty after finding one feels off.  In France you know for sure it's them as the parish records are so detailed.  Here you're like welllll.. it could be them not 100% sure but lets go with it lol. Even my friends recently given up who I was hoping would get into it and we could have a hobby together but she thinks the same as me - shes like its like my family dont exist at all 

No, you cannot just rock up, as you put it and ask to see records, many repositories require an advance appointment and a few require advanced permission on certain records.

When dealing with old records still held by UK Government Departments and Health etc., the enquirer will often need to prove they are related and the immediate next of kin mentioned in the record requested are deceased and often those in 2nd Marriages to them etc., are also deceased (using formal death records / Probate), and/or have a right to have a copy.

Even early C19 deposited surviving property records required tracing the current owner of the property (which stands there now), making a formal written approach and getting advance written permission from a Solicitor, for a researcher to go to their place of deposit.

There may also be Archive reproduction fees etc., plus your researcher's/own expenses, etc.

Mark