The enigma surrounding the origins of William John DEMPSEY (1900-1961)

[heywood]

1925- 25 yrs b Ireland
1930 - 31 yrs b Ireland
1940 - 39 yrs b New York

Does the 1925 census give any further information re origins etc?

What about his marriage certificates?

[TreeDigger]

The census takings indeed state Ireland throughout. However, on his WW II draft card he says he's born 30 June 1900 in Liverpool! And that, coupled with the matches and the name Agnis/Agnes Prince in some trees caught my attention.

Unfortunately ordering a marriage certificate is both pricey and time consuming, and I haven't found any relevant indexes on FamilySearch (yet). The several relatives I've contacted have not responded.

The one other research route could be his DoB coupled with a presumed service in the UK Army during WW I and a 'visible bayonet scar underneath the heart' per both family stories and his draft card. But that's only viable if we have a surname, and thus far any William Dempsey I've found wasn't born on June 30.

[aghadowey]

Don't think you mentioned checking for passenger manifest as I suggested earlier? that might provide useful details to search further.

Doesn't the Liverpool accent resemble Irish? Dempsey may have (ab)used that in the US to muddle his origins.

Not sure where you got the idea that the accents would be similar but I've never heard anyone from Liverpool that sounded like anyone with an Irish accent.
There may not be anything devious intended with giving two different places of birth. If born in one and raised in other he might have listed the two at separate times or someone giving the information may have made a mistake.

[TreeDigger]

I checked pages and pages of passenger lists, naturalization documents, etc. He's nowhere to be found. I think his son also mentions in one of the public stories on Ancestry that no specifics were known about either his place of birth or immigration story.

The resemblance between Irish and the Liverpool accent - though probably easily distinguishable for those of UK extraction - is something mentioned on i.e. American websites. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Blue70]

To British and Irish people a Liverpool accent wouldn't be confused with an Irish accent but I've read about Americans confusing the Liverpool accent for Irish or Scottish because there's non-English influences in the Liverpool accent and I can understand how Americans hearing it in the flesh would think yes you're speaking English but you must be Irish or Scottish or something like that because they're struggling to understand what you're saying 

C

[TreeDigger]

That, exactly

No matter how I turn this thing, the lack of Irish origin material coupled with the DNA evidence & matches point to William Dempsey at least being truthful about his Liverpool birth on his draft card.

And out of the seven mutual matches with his grandchild..
*three are descendants of my great-grandmother Frances Haycock-Prince (b.1868)
*three are descendants of her sister Agnes Foster-Prince (b.1872)
*one is a descendant of their half-sister Margaret Penn-Threlfall (b. 1857)

All seven are descendants of my 2x great-grandmother Ann Stanton (b. 1833) from her marriages to Robert Penn Threlfall and Joseph Prince. And William Dempsey is, without much doubt, a grandson of hers.

[heywood]

My great-grandmother Frances Prince (1868-1959) had a sister named Agnes Prince (1872-1940) who married Thomas Foster (1867-1918) and had a son named William (1898-1988) who happened to emigrate to the USA. However, this is not the same individual, and there are a total of 7 half-/siblings to choose from as William's parents. I suspect William either changed his name in the US (arriving there ca. 1923 according to the 1925 NY census) or was a 'whoops' baby and given up for adoption. Remarkably his daughter's name (Carol Ann, d. 2010) closely resembles that of both Frances and Agnes' grandmother, Caroline Godfrey.

Is it definite family knowledge that William Foster is the man who emigrated to US.
Birth
September quarter 1900, Toxteth Park
William Foster mmn Prince

1901 census
William Foster is 1 yr (he wouldn’t be quite that age)
1911 census - 11 yrs

A published tree has this person as William
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JRFS-GMH
William Foster died 1988 - Ohio with birth date 19th March 1898

Do you have more details?

[heywood]

This William Foster has a birthdate of 19.3 1898
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6WJ-D6K
His address is 137 Beaufort Street, Liverpool

This is a likely 1911 entry for that William Foster
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWRB-FTV

Is that tree wrong with the details for William Foster?

[heywood]

A possibility
Marriage
11th January 1921 St Thomas, Walton on the Hill
William Foster, 20 yrs Barman, 7 Robertson Street, father Thomas (deceased), labourer
Elizabeth Howard, 29 yrs, 38 Robertson Street, father, James Howard, labourer
Witnesses : George Burton and Agnes Foster

There was a child born 1921 - Thomas.

A published tree shows Elizabeth Foster marries Gerard John Burke in 1931.
Births indicate that children born have mother Howard.