Mary Anne (?), Mary Jane SKUSE, Henry SMITH, son George 'Juggy' Henry Smith

[Chard0t]

First Post, so apologies if I'm rambling or not putting the correct information.

I'm looking for my Great Grandmothers Ancestry -  Elsie Maud Ellen Abbott (nee Smith) 1916-2003 or 'Shut Up Edna' as i use to call her before she passed.

Her mother was Mary Jane Smith (nee Skuse). She was unfortunately put into Stoke Park Dower House later on in life, however I don't know if she died there, I only know that my nan (aged 89!) remembers visiting her.
However before then, she was married to a Henry Smith. He already had 12 other children from a previous marriage (Mary Ann Smith (nee:?)). One of which was George Henry Smith (In records as George Hy Smith (1893-?)). He must have been very popular as he was nicknamed 'Juggy'.  I have been told that George was a Gypsy, however having the surname Smith I'd assume is very popular within the community.

As I'm looking up my Maternal side of my ancestry, I can't find a single bit of information other than above, drawing to a dead end.

They are all located locally, from Marshfield, (Old/Chipping) Sodbury, Purton (for George Henry Smith).

If anyone has any information on this family, or could search or do whatever they ask on this site, then I'd be so so delighted. I know it seems like a fat chance, but I'm so desperate to find out more.
Thank you for getting this far 

Charlotte

[Neale1961]

Birth Registration
SMITH, ELSIE  MAUD ELLEN                Mother - SKUSE 
GRO Reference: 1916  M Quarter in CHIPPING SODBURY  Volume 06A  Page 388

Baptism 6th Feb 1916 (born 7th Jan)  Henry and Mary Jane Smith
Abode Tormarton,  occ- labourer



I cannot yet see a marriage for Skuse to Smith. Is it possible she was a widow when she married - so married under a different name?


Elsie Abbott (nee Smith) and her husband are in the 1939 register together in Grove Cottage, Sodbury Rd with her father.
Henry Smith born 10 June 1864 O A pensioner.
No sign of Henry’s wife. He is not recorded as a widower,  so had she already gone to Stoke Park House.


Henry Smith death 1942 Sodbury, age 78.

[Neale1961]

I think you may have gone off track with the son George. You have the wrong birth year for him (should be 1887), and that sent you to the wrong census records, etc. Smith is such a common surname, and then Henry and George don't add to the ease of finding things.

I believe this may be the correct Henry Smith and family ...........

1911 census Tormarton
Henry Smith – Head, 46 widower, farm labourer, born Burton
Henry Thomas Smith – son, 19, single
Sarah Bushrod daughter 23 – born Sherston; plus her children William Henry Thomas 5, Charles Christopher 3, Herbert Harvey 2, Elsie May 1.


1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4VG5-VT2

1901 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS6H-73J


Marriage Henry Smith to Elizabeth Nibblett 23 Sept 1882 Sherston Magna, Wilts
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXMC-LBC
His Father – William Smith – coal merchant
Her father – Thomas Niblett - labourer


1881 census for William Smith, wife Sarah and son Henry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-VTDX
  In the 1871 census and the 1891 William is a coal hauler

1871 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFNB-CRB

[Neale1961]

 I think the correct birth for Henry Smith -

Birth REGO
SMITH, HENRY              Mother - COOK 
GRO Reference: 1864  S Quarter in CHIPPENHAM  Volume 05A  Page 45

You need to look at this certificate to check the birth date against that from the 1939 register.

[Neale1961]

I would suggest looking for Elsie with her parents in the 1921 census so you can get an idea of the birth date for her mother.

[Chard0t]

So my nan, (Elsies daughter) remembers going to Gloucester train station to visit Mary Jane Smith (Nee: Skuse), and says she doesn't remember getting a bus, but just walking to the hospital to see MJ. This made me think I wonder if Mary Jane was actually a patient at 1st County Asylum in Gloucester, on Horton Road, NOT Stoke Park House.

Elsie was the only child of her Mother MJ, as she was the last born of 12 others from Henrys previous Marriage.

My nan also remembers her mother going to see relatives in Purton, and a Vic Skuse comes to my nans mind..

I may have gone completely wrong on the George Henry Smith, and his mother, Mary Ann. (Now unsure if that was even her name).



Amazing clues so far, thank you everyone who replied.

[Neale1961]

I may have gone completely wrong on the George Henry Smith, and his mother, Mary Ann. (Now unsure if that was even her name).

Yes, I believe you had gone wrong - as already demonstrated in my earlier posts. The information I have supplied is based on the birth date for Elsie’s father, Henry Smith, as recorded on the 1939 register.
I have supplied the details of various birth records. At the very small cost of £2.50 to purchase the original record, you can verify this information.

I don’t know why you would think the mother is Mary Ann. Perhaps you were looking at someone’s public tree which is full of errors and has not been thoroughly researched?

Amazing clues so far, thank you everyone who replied.

Only one person has replied, but I have posted numerous times. The information I have posted includes birth and marriage records and links to census records (free to access) – so possibly more than just “clues”.

[Neale1961]

In 1939 Mary Jane is a patient in the County Mental Hospital on Gloucester Road
Information recorded: Mary J SMITH, married, birth year 1878, occupation not known.


This is probably her death registration:
SMITH, MARY  JANE     Age 78 
GRO Reference: 1956  M Quarter in GLOUCESTER CITY  Volume 07B  Page 588

[Neale1961]

I think Mary Jane’s birth year of 1878 (as recorded by mental hospital) is out by 1 year.
There is this baptism;
Mary Jane SCUSE born 7 Apr 1879*, baptised 26 June 1881 Leigh, Wiltshire.
Parents - Mark SCUSE (labourer) and Ellen

This is her birth registration as it appears on the GRO index:-
SKUSE, MARY  JANE                          Mother - CURTIS 
GRO Reference: 1879  J Quarter in CRICKLADE  Volume 05A  Page 45


This is her family in 1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-VWF8


and her family in 1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSK7-KL6


Parents:-
Mark SKUSE married 5 Apr 1879 in Leigh Wiltshire to Ellen CURTIS
Groom, age 23, bachelor, labourer. Father – Joseph Skuse, labourer, deceased.
Bride, age 24 Spinster. Father Matthew Curtis, dealer.

(*You will note that Mary Jane was born 2 days after her parents were married.)

----------

Mark SCUSE baptised 17 Feb 1856 Leigh, Wilts; son of Elizabeth and Joseph SKUSE (labourer)
-   and died 1938 Swindon
Ellen CURTIS baptised 7 Jan 1855 Leigh, Wilts; daughter of Mary Ann and Matthew CURTIS (labourer)
-   and died 1920 Leigh

Children of Mark SKUSE / SCUSE and Ellen CURTIS
•   Leah CURTIS  1877-1897
•   Mary Jane SKUSE  1879
•   Joseph SKUSE  1882
•   Mabel Ellen SKUSE  1884
•   Job Henry SKUSE  1888
•   Eliza SKUSE  1890
•   Maud SKUSE  1892
•   Mark SKUSE  1894