Author Topic: Nancy Sloss Update  (Read 285 times)

Offline McKelvieClan

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Nancy Sloss Update
« on: Friday 02 February 24 12:53 GMT (UK) »
I dont want to attach this post with the previous one few years ago when trying to find my grandmother because I think it will only confuse things.  Hear me out and if this person is the adopted Nancy Sloss then we can merge things. If we concentrate on Nancy Sloss to begin with.

Nancy Sloss appeared in the 1911 census at Campsie as the 6 year old adopted daughter of Andrew and Margaret Sloss re McMillan born in Lanarkshire, Glasgow.  1921 Census she is now called Agnes Sloss and aged 16 years and 7 months.  1921 census taken in June 1921 possible birth month be November. She is recorded as their daughter and is employed as a laundry packer. 

Margaret McMillan has a half sister called Helen or Ellen, has also called herself Nellie and Kellie names taken from signatures on various death certificates and census.   She marries a John Stephenson Caldwell in 1904 Kelvin, Glasgow and she is recorded as Nellie McMillan.  Parentage and ages all tally with Helen McMillan. I have contacted Scotlands People and they confirm the name Nellie on the marriage certificate and have said that perhaps this was a nickname for her. 

22 November 1904 at Maryhill, Glasgow she gives birth to Agnes Winning Caldwell.  Agnes Winning Caldwell never appears in any census with her parents.  1911 Census John and Ellen are at Govanhill in Lanark, Glasgow with their other 2 sons.  They have been married for 7 years and they have had 3 children born alive and 3 children still living.  Only 2 children listed and I cannot find an Agnes Caldwell at another address in that census that matches her details.  1921 census the family are all living at St Rollox and Helen has had an additional 2 children and all 4 children are listed.  There is no column in that census for children born alive and still living. 

Margaret Sloss (Helen's half sister) had 2 children die Catherine died aged 6 months in 1905 and John died at 1 day old in February 1906. 

I  think Helen gave Agnes to her sister Margaret who called her Nancy to begin with and then changed her name to Agnes.  Agnes Winning Caldwell became  Nancy Sloss and then Agnes Sloss.

1935 Isabel Sloss is born at 22 Service Street, Campsie (the address of Margaret Sloss re McMillan) to an Agnes Winning Sloss daughter of a Spirit Salesman.  (John Caldwell had been a Spirit Salesman).

Isabel Sloss is my aunt.  This is where we have a twist to the story.  1939 National Register does not have an Agnes Caldwell in Scotland with Agnes's details.

My aunt's mother (my grandmother) was known to us as Ann Morrison.  She died in Halifax, Yorkshire in 1982. On her death certificate a line was put through her maiden name apparantly it was not known and her birth date recorded as 22 August 1910. My uncle registered her death.  Could not find a birth record with these dates. She married  a William McKelvie in 1938 in Blythswood.  William is 24 and Ann is 26. Marriage certificate says Father - Andrew Royston Morrison - Analytical Chemist and mother Margaret McMillan.  Cant find marriage between Andrew Royston Morrison and Margaret McMillan. 

According to the 1939 National Register Ann McKelvie (married) is in Perth at The Manse carrying out unpaid domestic duties.  This was at the start of the second world war and I think she had been evacuated from Glasgow. My aunt Wilma was born in  September 1939 at Dunning Perth.  Ann McKelvie's date of birth is 22 November 1911.  (the same birthday as Agnes Winning Caldwell just different years).
I have found a birth record for an Annie Murray Morrison born 22 November 1910 in Govan father - Robert Morrison and mother Elizabeth Somerville.  They move to Hull in Yorkshire and Robert dies in 1917 and Elizabeth dies in 1926.  Ann Morrison can be traced to 1921 aged 10 in Hull, Yorkshire with her widowed mother and her brothers and sisters.  Her sisters, Sarah marries Edward Ernest Gumbrell, I did find a Frederick Royston Gumbrell but I cant connect him to Ernest thinking possible Royston middle name connection. Sister Catherine dies in 1936 in England.  Brothers Hugh dies single in England about 1930s and brother Robert does end up back in Scotland marrying an Elizabeth Duthie.  He dies in 1986. Cant find out what happened to Annie Murray Morrison.

Is Agnes Caldwell re Nancy Sloss re Agnes Sloss my grandmother or is Annie Murray Morrison.  I just dont know. I have hit a brick wall with both of them.  I have two people and I need to rule one out.  Any ideas?  Sorry so long

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Nancy Sloss Update
« Reply #1 on: Friday 02 February 24 13:06 GMT (UK) »
Previous threads that relate this this topic (note that one of them has the identical title to the new thread)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=868050.0
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=831056.0
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=825727.0

As far as Nancy and Agnes are concerned, Nancy is already a well established diminutive or pet name for Agnes, so no change of name was involved. She was probably known formally as Agnes and informally as Nancy.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline McKelvieClan

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Re: Nancy Sloss Update
« Reply #2 on: Friday 02 February 24 13:38 GMT (UK) »
Annie Murray Morrison, what happened to her?  She grew up in Hull, Yorkshire.  My grandmother moved to Yorkshire and died there.  If I could rule her out then I would agree Agnes is my grandmother. 


Offline GR2

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Re: Nancy Sloss Update
« Reply #3 on: Friday 02 February 24 19:37 GMT (UK) »
Nancy is to Agnes and Nellie is to Helen what Sandy is to Alexander and Jessie is to Janet. They are completely interchangeable and even where someone signs their name or is officially recorded as Agnes and Helen, their friends, family and themselves will just as often refer to them as Nancy and Helen.


Offline MonicaL

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Re: Nancy Sloss Update
« Reply #4 on: Friday 02 February 24 21:45 GMT (UK) »

I have found a birth record for an Annie Murray Morrison born 22 November 1910 in Govan father - Robert Morrison and mother Elizabeth Somerville.  They move to Hull in Yorkshire and Robert dies in 1917 and Elizabeth dies in 1926.  Ann Morrison can be traced to 1921 aged 10 in Hull, Yorkshire with her widowed mother and her brothers and sisters....Cant find out what happened to Annie Murray Morrison.


But you know where she was in 1921.

Agnes is with Sloss family in Campsie, Stirlingshire at the time of the 1921 census:

Andrew Sloss 49
Margaret Sloss 50
Agnes Sloss 16
Mary Sloss 7

Ref 475/ 3/ 12

I wonder if Agnes would show on any Electoral Rolls with mother Margaret in Campsie in the 1930s. From the Valuation Rolls, the Andrew/Margaret show at:

18 SERVICE STREET LENNOXTOWN CAMPSIE 1925 & 1930

22 SERVICE STREET LENNOXTOWN CAMPSIE 1935

Don't think these are available on line and would require a personal search I would imagine.

Campsie is now classified as being in East Dunbartonshire. You could make enquiries here www.edlc.co.uk/heritage-arts/archives regarding access to historical electoral rolls.

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Nancy Sloss Update
« Reply #5 on: Friday 02 February 24 22:16 GMT (UK) »
Agnes Winning Caldwell born on 22 November 1904, a few months after the marriage of her parents, John Stevenson Caldwell, a spirit salesman, and Nellie McMillan.

You have confirmed that Margaret McMillan and Nellie were sisters. You have followed up on Nellie and her family from her marriage to John Caldwell. No trace of Agnes with them. I note that Nellie also called one of her sons Andrew Sloss Caldwell, b. 1909 in Glasgow.

You have good details on Agnes's early years with her aunt Margaret McMillan and husband Andrew Sloss who raised her.

From the 1921 census and Agnes with the Sloss family, you jump to Isabel Sloss's birth in Campsie in 1935 at the home of Margaret Sloss, Agnes's adotive mother and aunt.

You have confirmed that Isabel Sloss is your aunt. Her mother, on her birth registration, is given as Agnes Winning Sloss which is a perfect fit with the back story for Agnes.

It has been a hard search, reading through the other main long thread. But I do think you have put the pieces together. I suppose the perfect confirmation would be a DNA link to the McMillan family, with threads to the Sloss and Caldwell family groups. But these may not be available to you.

I think Agnes gave a mix of information when she married William McKelvie in 1938 which is a pity and has hampered your searches. Why she went by the maiden name of Morrison is anyone's guess at this time. The fact that her children knew of her link to the surname Sloss is certainly helpful. Why she started to use Ann, a variant of Agnes as you know, in her later years, again would just be guesses for now.

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Nancy Sloss Update
« Reply #6 on: Friday 02 February 24 22:22 GMT (UK) »
Possible entry in the electoral rolls for a Mrs Margaret Sloss and a Mary Sloss living at 1 Stewartville Street in Glasgow in 1939.

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Nancy Sloss Update
« Reply #7 on: Friday 02 February 24 22:24 GMT (UK) »
Just a reminder from one of the other links, this website is a really helpful guide to first name variants - www.whatsinaname.net:

I haven't read the other threads but I just wanted to say that all three names you mention: Nancy, Agnes and Ann, are first name variants and therefore interchangeable.

See www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=nancy

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