22293 Sgt Hartley Webber

[carlT]

Hello
I'm trying to look into more of my Grandmother's Brother Hartley Webber reg no 22293 South Wales Borderers. He was taken prisoner on 12th April 1918 at Merville. While travelling by train near ? St.Maur, a British aeroplane  bombed the train. Hartley suffered a double shattering of the lower jaw, left lower lower part of his thigh.left metatarsal of the upper arm.
Thankfully a German surgeon put Him back together again apparently using rabbit bone to rebuild his jaw.
Hartley went on to live into his nineties.
I want to know where could I ask if our records have any details of this or would I have to look to Germany.
Also earlier would Hartley been at Mametz
Thank you.

[Andy J2022]

According to FindMyPast, Hartley Charles Webber was among the patients treated by the pioneering plastic and reconstructive surgeon Sir Harold Gilles. You should be able to find details about his treatment in the Gillies Archive hosted by the Royal Colleg of Surgeons.

Interestingly the FindMyPast entry says he received his injuries to the chin and mandible as a result of a gunshot wound on 1 Jun 1918 (this date may refer to when he was treated see below). However this seems to conflict with the story that he was treated by a German doctor while a POW.

Is your Hartley Charles Webber the same man who ran a carters business after the war, and seems to have had a side line as an illegal bookie in Bristol?

[Andy J2022]

Just to update my previous comments, it may be that the actual clinical notes covering the WW1 patients are not held in the RCS archive. For a full explanation of where the records went, see here: http://www.gilliesarchives.org.uk/

Webber HC Sgt 22293 SWB aged 22 (with new Army Number 3904148) is shown in the database as number 2173. The database apparently contains his full medical notes, photograph and Xray. The database says that the date of the injury (gsw) was 1 June 1918.

[carlT]

Hi,
Just took a while to think about all this.
Regarding Hartleys injuries I have been trying to post the letter we have as an attachment from record office no1 in Shrewsbury dated 12th Dec 1918.
Which states what I wrote, but maybe the plane used machine guns as well ?
He is definitely with the German military then and I suppose came to Sidcup later.
We do have a poor print of him amongst several patients.
Regarding Hartley running an illegal bookies in Bristol that makes me smile,
I knew him from his later life in Chesterfield he was very mild mannered.
What he did after the War I have no idea.
Interesting is his Father's Brother was a Hartley Charles Webber and he lived in Bristol whether the connection in there I have no idea

[AlanBoyd]

According to a report on the illegal betting in Bristol in the Bristol Times and Mirror September 15th 1920, the Hartley Charles Webber involved was 54, and a naval pensioner. There was also a Thomas George Webber (38) discharged soldier involved.

[carlT]

Ah, that tells me it's his Father's Brother.
He was in the navy. When I looked for his ship it was a land training area.
He trained ratings boilers and the workings.
Who the other is needs looking into
Thank you

[GrahamSimons]

There are possible lines to follow on PoWs here:
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-prisoners-of-war-1790-1919/

[cath151]

Hi , he seems to be in the Prisoners of the first World War, the International Committee of the Red Cross Records under Charles Webber,

Charles Webber born Cardiff 30 Nov 1896
Pte 22293 SWB company A, captured 1918
Prison camp  Friedrichsfeld, previous camp West Front
Unverwundet ( wounded)

Image available on FindMyPast.

Cathy

[ShaunJ]

Unverwundet ( wounded)

Unverwundet means not wounded. So he wasn't wounded at the time of his capture.

Here's the link to the document. It's dated 28 October 1918

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2268402/698/38905/