Author Topic: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare  (Read 574 times)

Offline SHRYL

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John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« on: Sunday 11 February 24 06:34 GMT (UK) »
Can I ask for any help regarding John Heffernan b1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b 1840? Married at Newmarket on Fergus 2nd Feb 1859 Children: Daniel b 12.4.1862, Margaret b 17.4.1864, Patrick b 28.6.1867  Margaret 1864 , is my great grandmother. I am travelling to Co Clare in June and would love to visit churches where married and places they lived (I think they were farmers) and where they are buried if possible? I am not sure of their birth dates either? many thanks in anticipation.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 11 February 24 08:08 GMT (UK) »
Here is the civil registration for the birth of Margaret Heffernan in 1864.

Handwriting is difficult, but the date looks to me like 12/4/1864 [somewhat unclear on the 12, anyone else?]. Father John Heffernan, mother Peggy Rourke [Peggy is Margaret].  Father a laborer. The address I can't connect to a formal townland address in Clare - need input from others.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03612/2332826.pdf
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 11 February 24 08:11 GMT (UK) »
Baptism of Margaret, daughter of John Heffernan and Margaret Rourke, parish of Newmarket-on-Fergus, 21 April 1864 [Bottom of left hand page]
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634764#page/170/mode/1up
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 11 February 24 08:15 GMT (UK) »
OP is correct that John Heffernan and Margaret Rourke were married on 2 February 1859 in parish of Newmarket-on-Fergus
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634764#page/232/mode/1up
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area


Offline Wexflyer

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Re: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 11 February 24 08:51 GMT (UK) »
Civil birth registration for Patrick Heffernan on 28/6/1867. John has been promoted - now a "small farmer".
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03471/2274944.pdf

I still can't identify the address with a formal townland though. The two civil registration births are in the district of Newmarket, and one can restrict the list to just townlands in that area, or just in the Barony of Bunratty Lower. Nothing obvious.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline heywood

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Re: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 11 February 24 11:55 GMT (UK) »
There is this place:
Mooghaun North and there is Mooghaun South in Tomfinlough parish

https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2786&civilparish=Tomfinlough

Griffiths Valuation shows a John Heffernan in Mooghaun North.

Seems to be Mooglaun here
https://www.townlands.ie/clare/bunratty-lower/tomfinlough/newmarket/mooglaun-south/

Irish census 1901 shows Heffernan and O’Rourke in Moohaun North
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01szo/

What do you think?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 11 February 24 19:22 GMT (UK) »
There is this place:
Mooghaun North and there is Mooghaun South in Tomfinlough parish

https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2786&civilparish=Tomfinlough

Griffiths Valuation shows a John Heffernan in Mooghaun North.

Seems to be Mooglaun here
https://www.townlands.ie/clare/bunratty-lower/tomfinlough/newmarket/mooglaun-south/

Irish census 1901 shows Heffernan and O’Rourke in Moohaun North
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01szo/

What do you think?

Yes, I reached the same conclusion about the townland, before turning in for the night.  Also noticed  a very significant point about the Hefffernans there - multiple families, same name.

I have to say that some people do have them, and SHYRL has picked classics with these folks in Clare and also her ancestors in Roscommon.
I will post separately about the twowland and the family.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 11 February 24 19:35 GMT (UK) »
It is not that uncommon for the Ordnance Survey official spelling to diverge from local usage, ad that local usage may also be used officially by An Post and the railway. Usually though, the difference is an obvious one - things like Oylgate versus Oilgate, Ballygeary versus Ballygerry, etc.
But I have never previously noticed a discrepancy like this one where Griffith's disagrees with Towlnlands.ie,  and in turn is noticeably different from with the local usage in registrations and census returns.

Multiple civil registration BDM returns all say Moohaun. No north or south. 
There is no Moohaun in Griffith's or Townlands.ie
As heywood has pointed out, Griffiths Valuation has
Mooghaun North, and
Mooghaun South

While Townlands.ie has
Mooglaun North
https://www.townlands.ie/clare/bunratty-lower/tomfinlough/newmarket/mooglaun-north/
and
Mooglaun South
https://www.townlands.ie/clare/bunratty-lower/tomfinlough/newmarket/mooglaun-south/
There is also a Mogullaan
https://www.townlands.ie/clare/bunratty-lower/drumline/urlan/mogullaan/

As heywood also mentioned, comparison with Griffith's valuation and the 1901 census allows one to say with certainty that one John Heffernan family was in Moohaun/Mooghaun/Mooglaun North.
However, this was apparently NOT OPs family.


BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: John Heffernan b 1836? and Margaret O'Rourke b1840? co clare
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 11 February 24 19:57 GMT (UK) »
Griffith's Valuation for Ennis PLU was published on 15/9/1855.
As heywood already commented, a John Heffernan is shown as farming over 40 acres in Mooghaun North, jointly with two others, and living in a modest 15.s house.

That is the first sign of a discrepancy. Such a person would never be described as a "labourer" as on the 1864 birth registration for Margaret Heffernan.

Separately, I noticed births to a John Heffernan and Sarah O'Neill, farmer, address Moohaun, both before and after the births of the children to John Heffernan and Margaret Rourke.

Conclusion - there were two John Heffernans in Moohaun, and the one married to Sarah O'Neill is the one with the farm shown on Griffith's Valuation.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area