Help finding common ancestor

[hwlambert]

I am having trouble finding a common ancestor for 3 of my DNA matches. They are aged around 26, 14 & 12 and I am in my early 70s. They match my paternal line, and a half sibling would be a surprise.
They share enough DNA to be 2nd cousin, 1st cousin 2x removed or half 1st cousin 1x removed with 165, 224 & 203. The parent of the 14 & 12 year-olds is in their late 50s and not tested so they have one generation less than me in their tree. They do not know of any adoption or illegitimate birth.
Would our common ancestor be at my grandfather and their great grandfather? Any help is much appreciated.
Heather

[Biggles50]

There is no easy way.

What I would do is first assume that their Grandparents are of your Generation.

I’d build a tree from them going back to the equivalent of your Great Great Grandparents and see what you find.

At the cM values that you quote the relationships predicted by DNA Painter do have a wide spread so it is no mean task to build a tree.

I would also print out a pedigree chart from yourself going back to say your 3x or 4x GGP’s and on the chart I would mark up where known DNA matches (those who are in your tree) and you share MRCA’s.  What I would look at is where, if any, there are xGGP’s that do not have any DNA matches linked to them.  Despite having all the paper trail there may be a NPE in your tree or for that matter the tree of your 3 DNA matches.

At 3xGGP this is the level that DNA inheritance can become non existent, whilst this may see odd so is the DNA recombination process which is very random in what segments are passed on.

Good luck

[Glen in Tinsel Kni]

With a 2nd cousin match you are looking at the common ancestor being your great grandparent level and a first cousin match would be from your grandparents.  Given the ages mentioned it's not unreasonable to expect they are removed cousins to you and will therefore have to add an additional generation or two  before they reach the common ancestor(s) you share.

I'm not entirely clear why the lack of the parent testing results in a tree having one less generation as going backwards there comes a point at which there are no living people to test. It's been 30 years since the last relative in my parents' generation died and almost 60 years since the last one of the previous generation passed away so dna of an earlier generation was never an option for me.

[hwlambert]

Thanks for your replies.
My 3 DNA matches all have the same grandparents recorded but they are not on my family tree, and I can find no DNA matches in my tree to their grandparents or great grandparents’ surnames. I think there may be an NPE in their trees.

I need to check their DNA matches but unfortunately 2 are children and I have not been given access. The other has kindly given me access so I will see what I can find and what names their matches are connected to.

I have found another 2 matches on this same line coming up as half 1C and half 1C1R who also match my 3 DNA matches. They have not responded to my messages. They also have grandparent and great grandparent surnames that do not match my tree. I think they have another NPE and probably the same one as the others.

Any further hints appreciated. Thanks.

[Biggles50]

As per previous advice that I gave.

Unless you have other DNA matches linking through your own Grandparents to your GGP’s and beyond the NPE could be in your line. 

Hence marking up your pedigree chart

[Glen in Tinsel Kni]

Surname searching can be frustrating as often trees may not go back far enough, married names rather than maiden names could have been entered, entries made based on census relationships can also be an issue and many simply don't check the GRO index for maiden names which can often reveal a child born out of wedlock. That's even before considering those certificates with dubious information passed to the registrar that only DNA can show to be 'questionable' (I'm looking at you great granny Maria!!)
 
I never ceased to be amazed at how the big sites are great at giving hints from trees (often unsourced), that a couple of bmd searches quickly show to be flawed but somehow skip the one or two that have been researched with some care.

I might just be unlucky with who has tested but I have a lack of matches to both grandfathers and some groups of mystery matches including some around 200cM, unfortunately they like to keep their trees private and dismiss any connection simply because the surnames they know aren't in my tree which is public. One claims our 180cM shared dna is a false match,  I wish it were and I'd happily swap them for a cooperative match who would like to unpick the story with me.

[hwlambert]

Point taken and you may well be right! I might own the NPE. My family tree on my father’s paternal line is very small. I will go back and look at things with a change of focus.

I have found DNA matches to my great grandmother and back to her grandparents, but I have found NO matches to my great grandfather other than my immediate family and 1st cousins.
I have looked at the Ancestry trees for my 2x great grandparents and no-one connected to it is a match to me. My great grandfather’s only sibling does not have a tree on Ancestry. I am not sure now if either side is a match to me, so I need to do lots more work.

I will have to check out my unknown matches in the Yorkshire/East Midlands, my common areas. My biggest match is 315cM, the 3 matches already mentioned and my biggest matches nephew at 147cM then down to 35cM.

I have communicated with her, and she knows nothing about her family after her grandparents. She did not answer my last message through Ancestry over 2 years ago. I have done some work on her family but not with the focus on mine being the NPE so will take another look. Dad, I wish you were here.

Thank you both so much for your interest and input. Thank you for educating me.

[Ruskie]

It might help if you can persuade the parents of your two young matches to take DNA tests.

Although you can’t find any familiar surnames in the matches’ trees, are any of the place names the same as in your tree?

They could easily be descended via a female line whose surnames changed upon marriage.

[hwlambert]

That is well worth a look, thanks.

All the matches I have on my father’s paternal side are from New Zealand and have Yorkshire & Midlands as our common area. I have a few unknown matches who also have that common area, but most have no trees. My grandfather and great grandfather were born in England.

I have made up my 315cM matches tree and checked all the surnames against the Ancestry trees researching those people and have found no DNA matches to me or my sister. I have also made the trees for the 3 younger matches and checked them but again there were no matches to me other than them.

That only leaves matches to my sister and 2 of my first cousins’ children. I thought I had my paternal side researched because my dad knew his grandfather well and lived with them during his early years.

As for the young children, I have no contact with their father and I don’t know if he knows that they have taken a DNA test uploaded by their mother. I have communicated with her but she has not replied. So unfortunately at this time it is not likely I can get anyone to do a DNA test.

So back to the to the beginning again for me.