Author Topic: William Irving  (Read 708 times)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #18 on: Friday 23 February 24 09:09 GMT (UK) »
There are some court papers for the paternity case in the National Records Office of Scotland which might give you additional information. This link gives the reference number and a brief mention.
https://www.scottishindexes.com/courtentry.aspx?courtid=36083021
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Online Millmoor

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #19 on: Friday 23 February 24 09:10 GMT (UK) »
Scottish indexes have an entry in their paternity index;

Pursuer : Mary Ann Dalrymple, domestic servant, Muirbank, Ecclefechan, Dumfriesshire,

Defender: William Beattie, Porter, ( Caledonian Railway Company), Buchanan Street, Glasgow

The decree was in 1892 ( thus after 1891 census when William Dalrymple from Forfarian's post is showing as second cousin).

Suspect, Kay, that Muirbank has been wrongly transcribed as Meinbank in the 1891 census you looked at.

I would also point out that he was born before, not after, the Johnston/ Irving marriage.

William

( Was typing while you posted, Neale).
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #20 on: Friday 23 February 24 09:37 GMT (UK) »
I should have added that when Mary Irving married William Johnston in 1895 in Annan she lists her parents as John Scott and Elizabeth Scott nee Beattie with witnesses Matthew Dalrymple and Mary Ann Dalrymple
When Mary Scott married Thomas Irving in 1875 she said that her parents were John Scott and Mary Dalrymple.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Nodrogw

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #21 on: Friday 23 February 24 09:41 GMT (UK) »
I have checked the marriage certificate between Mary Irving (nee Scott) and William Johnstone. The Mother's name, shown as Elizabeth Scott (nee Beattie) is definitely wrong. When she married Thomas Irving, the marriage certificate correctly shows Mary Scott (nee Dalrymple)


Offline Forfarian

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #22 on: Friday 23 February 24 09:52 GMT (UK) »
Mary Dalrymple or Scott died in Annan in 1882 aged 62, mother's maiden surname Rae.

So that could explain one of her daughters, and one of her granddaughters, being named John Ann Rae.

Looks as if her widower John Scott married Margaret George, other surname Robinson, in Annan in 1889.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Nodrogw

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 25 February 24 07:11 GMT (UK) »
I have gone through all the information you have given, together with more from Scotlands People. I wondered if Mary adopted William, however adoptions were private in Scotland before 1930 so there will be no evidence. As Dalrymple was Mary's mother's surname, I am presuming that Mary Ann was a cousin, and probably was not in a position to bring a child up. I would think that Mary must have adopted him and given him the name of Irving. This is the only explanation I can give for Mary being advised of his death, as his mother. None of this can be proved unfortunately but it seems the most logical explanation.

Online Kay99

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 25 February 24 09:18 GMT (UK) »
Based on William's birth cert, which shows birth at North St,  I wondered whether he was born in the house of Mary Irving

Offline Nodrogw

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 25 February 24 09:41 GMT (UK) »
That could well be so.

Online Millmoor

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Re: William Irving
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 25 February 24 10:26 GMT (UK) »
Assuming we have identified the correct Mary Ann Dalrymple she died 10 Oct 1905 in Dumfries Infirmary. Work place is given as Luce Mains, Ecclefechan ( where she was recorded in 1901 with the same Kennedy family as in 1891). Parents William Dalrymple and Janet Lawson. Informant was brother John.

Some ancy trees have this cert.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)