Author Topic: Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use  (Read 247 times)

Offline lynsfamily

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Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use
« on: Saturday 24 February 24 10:04 GMT (UK) »
David Evans:
The 1841 census for Gulval in Cornwall, England shows my ancestor, David Evans, aged 60 (possible birth date 1781) whether born in same county marked N , whether born in Scotland, Ireland or Foreign Parts, there is a W.  I believe this to be Wales.
During my research on David I could establish at the time of his first marriage in Cornwall in 1800 he was a soldier with the Merionethshire Militia, further adding to the probability that he was born in Wales. The only other census I have is 1851, showing him as 73 (possible birth date of 1778) born Yarmouth, Norfolk.  He died in St Erth, Cornwall in 1855 and a copy of his death certificate shows his age at 78 (possible birth 1778)
Despite doing lots of checking and reading, I am not sure how I can establish David’s parents names correctly, but I took a punt that if I was dealing with patronymic names, then his parents may be Evan and Elisabeth.  His children’s names in birth order born in Cornwall -  Elisabeth, Mary, Evan Roberts, Joseph Barnes (Barnes is wife’s surname), David Lloyd, David, Thomas, and another Elizabeth.
Using 1776 give or take 10 years at Find My Past (Family Search) and Wales (no county), I located only 2 Welsh births with first names of Evan and Elizabeth, one with last name as Evans or David (1781) and  one with last name Jones or Evans (1782), both in Montgomeryshire.
Looking for any ideas or assistance that may give me a breakthrough. Apologies for the lengthy post, but needed to give enough for possible helpers to understand.
Current active interests.
Evans from Wales and Cornwall, Barnes (Barns), Mildren, Lory, from Cornwall.  Families migrated to Australia - Evans, Mildren between 1830-1860's.

Offline Ian Nelson

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Re: Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 24 February 24 10:48 GMT (UK) »
https://www.thepeerage.com/

Darryl Lundy's site will show many of the Aristocratic Montgomeries.

Originating in France, Mont Gommery, they arrived in small boats across the channel ....
After being given land in England and Wales they arrived in Scotland ... mostly North Ayrshire.
The Earls of Montgomery created the village of Eaglesham and the port town of Ardrossan and canals from there to Glasgow, before the railways, and their principal seat was Eglinton Castle, between Irvine & Kilwinning.  They intermarried with the Wintons and Setons, see thepeerage.com for details.
cheers, Ian
Norfolk, Nelsons of Gt Ryburgh, Gooch, Howman, COLLISONS,  Ainger, Couzens, Batrick (Norfolk & Dorset), Tubby ( also of Yorkshire) Cathcarts of Ireland, Lancashire & Isle of Wight) Dickinsons of Morecambe and Lancaster, Wilson of Poulton-le-Sands and Broughton.  Wilson - Ffrance of Rawcliffe,  Mitchells of Isle of Wight. Hair of Ayrshire, Williamson of Tradeston, Glasgow. Nelsons in Australia with Haywards Heath connections.

Offline Gadget

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Re: Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 24 February 24 11:34 GMT (UK) »
I see that in the 1851, the place of birth has been altered. I can't read what it was originally but have attached a snip.

Also, have you checked for religion, he might have been baptised in a non-conformist church/chapel so the ones that you've found maybe incorrect.   

re the patronymic form - some of my ancestors were from Merionethshire and at that time  the records recorded the patronymic form and other times when it reverted to surnames. (I think you are confusing the patronymic with naming conventions)

Gadget

Add - also, in the birth place col, the county is given before the place in all other entries that I've looked at  :-\

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Offline arthurk

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Re: Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 24 February 24 13:58 GMT (UK) »
The writing on this page is clear and well formed (except where someone has scrubbed it out), so the difficulty is most likely to have arisen from the householder's poor spelling or writing, or if he couldn't write, problems understanding his accent. We are not the first to find this entry confusing.

The first word seems to be Yormoth; the second one might be Shire or possibly Shrow; the third could be Barrow. So, allowing for difficulties with spelling, writing or accent, I have two possible interpretations: Monmouth Shire Barrow, or Yormoth Shrow Barrow (= Shrewsbury).

Neither of these leads me to anything obvious, but it's probably worth saying that I don't see anything that looks like Montgomery.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

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Offline Gadget

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Re: Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 24 February 24 14:41 GMT (UK) »
Is it possible to look up his military record - Merionethshire Militia - ? Napoleonic. I don't have access to many service records.

Gadget
 
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Offline osprey

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Re: Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 24 February 24 20:49 GMT (UK) »
Merionethshire Militia info here but I doubt that a private would be mentioned by name
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~wlsmer2/Militia/index.html

There is another David Evans from the Merionethshire Militia who married in Madron in 1801 to Anne Harvey.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Gadget

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Re: Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 24 February 24 21:14 GMT (UK) »
There's also a David Evans of 4th Royal Cornwall Local Militia in Madron in 1809

In the Pallot's Marriage index, The marriage is in Maldron and he is recorded as a Soldier. Both parties are 'of Penzance'

Gadget
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Offline lynsfamily

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Re: Montgomery Births and possible patronymic names use
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 25 February 24 23:27 GMT (UK) »
Thanks everyone.. Interesting, the comment about Shrewsbury as that County is next door.  The Evans/Harvey are a differet couple. One tree I checked tried to connect them claiming bigamy but not true. Likewise I don't have access to much Militia, but there are plenty of sites on google for me to check.
Once again, thank you.  Always marvel at the ready help on this site.
Lyn
Current active interests.
Evans from Wales and Cornwall, Barnes (Barns), Mildren, Lory, from Cornwall.  Families migrated to Australia - Evans, Mildren between 1830-1860's.