Phillips / Phillip - Clynnog ( Patrynomic Question )

[climbingthewalls]

Hi

One of my ancestors a David Phillip(s) was born in Clynnog (Capel Curig) - I think to a William John Phillip & Catherine. I have found 2 records one with David born to the couple in 1772 and the other 1786 to the same couple. So presumably the first David died. However unable to ascertain this.

My question is would the David, take the surname William, John or Phillip or a combination of them.
Also would the William John Phillip be a joining together of both his surname & wifes maiden name, or his father being a John Phillip something or a Phillip John something.

I am getting royally tangled up. The David Phillip I am looking at, I can see marries an Elizabeth Roberts in Clynnog (1822) and was a Shoemaker. He then becomes a mariner (I can see his occupation change on future birth registrations), and during that period he disappears off the radar. I am presuming missing at sea, as I can't find any death/burial records for him and he disappears from the family home. I know sailing around that time was very dangerous.

If anyone could help it would be very much appreciated
Thanks

[Milliepede]

Hi

Phillip or Phillips would be his surname the same as his father. 

William John are his fathers Christian names if I am reading it correctly.

Quite a big gap between David's of 14 years so did they have other sons in between?  If so you might have expected the next son born to be called David not one born 14 years later 

Do you know when Elizabeth died and if she was a widow?  You can search for deaths at sea.

[Gadget]

There used to be a very good article on Welsh Patronymics produced by Clwyd FHS. It doen't seem to be online now.

A section of Welsh Patronymics here:

https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/European_Patronymic_Surnames_-_International_Institute
Scroll to Wales

The patronymic would be David ap William  or David William. If it was a surname he would be David Phillip(s).

Gadget

[climbingthewalls]

Hi

Phillip or Phillips would be his surname the same as his father. 

William John are his fathers Christian names if I am reading it correctly.

Quite a big gap between David's of 14 years so did they have other sons in between?  If so you might have expected the next son born to be called David not one born 14 years later 

Do you know when Elizabeth died and if she was a widow?  You can search for deaths at sea.

Elizabeth died in 1854, still in Clynnog and yes she was a widow. Which again confirms David Phillip died. My guess he died somewhere in the mid - late 1830's as he does not appear in the 1841 census, but is still fathering children in the mid late 1830's. I've checked deaths at sea, but nothing seems to cover this time period (a bit before the records seem to start)  so I am at a loss really.

Thanks for your help!

[climbingthewalls]

Hi



Quite a big gap between David's of 14 years so did they have other sons in between?  If so you might have expected the next son born to be called David not one born 14 years later 

There are several kids between the two dates, many of the them girls in 2 year intervals. I'm guessing the first David didnt die in 1-2 years but a bit later, and then they had a run of girls until the next boy. I am guessing they are all the same siblings as they all share the same father William John Phillip and mother Catherine. He is labelled as shoemaker on them all too and they are all registered at Capel Curing / Clynnog

[Jomot]

William John Phillip(s) may be a form of extended patronymics, ie William ap John ap Phillip,

In my tree I have a Thomas Morgan EVAN who I'm reasonably certain was the son of Morgan EVAN. 

Another son of (I think!) the same Morgan EVAN used the MORGAN surname, and the above Thomas Morgan EVAN is buried in the middle of a row of his MORGAN descendants.

[climbingthewalls]

William John Phillip(s) may be a form of extended patronymics, ie William ap John ap Phillip,

I am thinking this may be the case. However struggling to place the birth, marriage or death in the clynnog region. Which would be strange as all the children seem to be born there. Also they all seem to be part of a small close knit group of shoemakers in clynnog - which seem all inter related.

[collwyn ap tangno]

hi, there’s no capel curig in clynnog. From memory there’s capel uchaf, capel brynaerau, capel bwlch derwin, capel ebenezer, capel seion, capel tai duon, nazareth and pant glas.

[climbingthewalls]

hi, there’s no capel curig in clynnog. From memory there’s capel uchaf, capel brynaerau, capel bwlch derwin, capel ebenezer, capel seion, capel tai duon, nazareth and pant glas.

Hi, yes that is true, but for some reason a lot of the Clynnog records are held under Capel Curig on ancestry - not sure why.