Myths debunked when doing family histroy.

[sylvia (canada)]

I have 2 stories from OH's ancestry line that I cannot prove or disprove, but they have been passed down in the family and regularly repeated!

1. An ancestor took a cow to market in Kendal some time in the 17th-19th centuries (!!), sold it, then was murdered on his way home and the money stolen. I can find nothing about any such event!

2. OH's gt gt parents had 20 children who all lived to adulthood .............. but the family story is that they "had 20 children twice", meaning 1 child died and they had another to bring the number back up to 20.

I have got details on all 20 children born between 1832 and 1860, with 11 of them marrying and having children but there is absolutely no trace of one being born and then dying, and really no sufficient time between any of them for there to have been a full term baby that died. The usual spacing seems to have been 15-18 months. One possibility is a full term baby or still birth between #19 (February 1858) and #20 (May 1860), but this family was very religious and I can imagine that the midwife would have argued that the baby had given 2 breaths and had therefore been born alive, and that there would then be a church funeral and burial. I've seen all the church registers and there is no such burial. No birth or death certificates. No baptisms, in church or private. Was it an early miscarriage?? No proof.

But at least one other descendant from that family has published an article in a local journal about 30 or so years ago describing the "20 children twice".

Intriguingly the last child to be born was given a) a Latin name that can mean 21, and b) is the only child to have more than 1 forename, and she has 3!

[Lisa in California]

…2. OH's gt gt parents had 20 children who all lived to adulthood .............. but the family story is that they "had 20 children twice", meaning 1 child died and they had another to bring the number back up to 20…

Perhaps I misunderstood the story, but is it possible that the mother had twins, with one passing at birth? 

[sylvia (canada)]

That is another possibility, I hadn't actually thought of twins.

Also, the way the story is phrased ....... "20 children twice" .......... implies that there were 20 children born and #20 died to be replaced 9 months or so later by another baby

But again, this was such a religious family, and it was pretty common back then in England, and possibly elsewhere, for the midwife (who might have been one of the older daughters) to swear that a baby had taken 2 breaths before dying and that she had done an emergency baptism to ensure that the baby would be buried within the church, and not just discarded.

That is often shown in the Parish Register as Private Baptism, and could be done by any adult in an emergency. If the baby lived it would be baptised again in church by the Priest at a later date.

There is just nothing that I can find to explain the story .............. no certificates, no Parish Register entry, nothing on grave stones, and we have been to that churchyard and cleaned many of this family's grave stones.

It's a family story that niggles!

[Lisa in California]

…One possibility is a full term baby or still birth between #19 (February 1858) and #20 (May 1860)…

…Also, the way the story is phrased ....... "20 children twice" .......... implies that there were 20 children born and #20 died to be replaced 9 months or so later by another baby

Possibly the mother’s pregnancy ended (very) prematurely and there wasn’t a possibility that the baby could have breathed on its own? 

[sylvia (canada)]

Possibly the mother’s pregnancy ended (very) prematurely and there wasn’t a possibility that the baby could have breathed on its own? 

That is of course the only answer we can come up with now.

However, it is well known that many "non-breathing babies" in England back at that time were held by the nurse/midwife/family member who would swear that the child had taken 2 breaths before dying, and therefore had been born alive. In that case it was perfectly acceptable for any person present to baptise the child. That allowed the baby to be buried within the church cemetery, and gave the mother some peace.

This was apparently very common in rural areas and when the parents were very religious. In  this case, every one of their children was baptised, most within 4 or 5 weeks of birth though there are some of the younger ones who were not taken to church until 2 or 3 months later. Those late baptisms seem to be connected to the birth of a child within 18 months of the previous one or with winter, which could be horrendous in that area.

I cannot think of any other explanation than a stillborn or miscarriage, but the lack of proof other than word of mouth niggles at me!

[coombs]

My niggling family story is the alleged Irish blood on my paternal gran's side, the only likely ancestor is one who lived in Oxford, but he died in 1849 and was a Smith, and was not born in county in the 1841 census. He had connections to a London born Andrew Carney. As I said, my nan's mother spent time in a Hackney convent in the early 1910s so maybe nan thought she was Catholic and of Irish descent. The convent was a training place for young women to enter domestic service.

Although many of her stories have proven to be true such as the surname Wallaker on her husband (my grandfather's side), and her maternal gran was Thirza by forename. And I just found out that her story about a weightlifter ancestor is true, her 3xgreat grandfather was once said to be the strongest man in Essex and lifted weights all the time. He died in 1836 in Leigh On Sea.

[Gillg]

My parents sometimes talked about the Black Sheep of the family in hushed tones, but never told me who that person was, though I concluded that he/she was from my father's side of the family.  From  the research that I have done I have only found one slightly shady person who might merit that title, my father's grandfather, who was dismissed from the police force for stealing strawberries and returned from London to his native village in shame.  Not quite so closely related was a sweet little boy who was arrested for stealing some nuts and fruit just before Christmas.  You can read about him here  http://vcp.e2bn.org/prisoners/2043-1811-dennis-fairey.html

[coombs]

My gran's (who said her mother was of likely Irish descent) maternal grandfather was buried in Rose Hill Cemetery Oxford in 1927, and was buried in the exact same grave as an Ann Bough who died in 1912 aged 79, who is on the 1911 Oxford census in the workhouse, and is said to be born in Wexford, Ireland, c 1832.

It was quite common for an unrelated person to be buried in the same grave as someone, but perhaps that is where the rumour of Irish blood came from, maybe my gran knew her grandfather was buried in a grave with an Irish lady. Although it is still possible Anne was a distant relative but I doubt it.

[coombs]

That "we are all related to each other after about 6 generations back", for instance if someone from Essex met someone in Scotland, you "Will find you are distantly related no further than 6 generations away". That is another myth that has been debunked.