Birth or marriage record - Hugh McCaffrey - Aghalurcher

[gleblanc]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes, of course I will look at all resources mentioned below and broaden the research as shanreagh suggested. Hugh's children were all born in Canada though (I have the records for all of them in Ancestry), but I will look at the 1821 census anyway. Hugh came here to fight off the Americans, so there are no immigration records other that when he was handed a lot of land after being discharged in 1815 or 1816.
So unless I find some marriage record or birth record in Ireland, which is unlikely I understand... Nevertheless I did find a birth entry in a simple list for a Hugh McCaffrey in Tyrone, Clogher in 1780. But without any siblings mentioned or anything else to work with who can know if it's him and if he left some family behind? This area of Northern Ireland was and is still is the most densely populated with McCaffreys.

As for going laterally, we found out that some families accompanied the troupes in combat. So Hugh could have married a fellow soldier's daughter abroad, with his officer's permission. But that is also hard to verify.

Anyhow thanks again and I will work with what you've given me.

Cheers.

[Jon_ni]

Church records do exist 1780recording baptisms, but NOT Roman Catholic ones in Fermanagh or Tyrone. The Penal Laws are the reason why R.C & Presbyterian registers start later. There was actually a Hugh McCaffrey from Clogher area in the FindMyPast military service records c.1810-14. Until Civil marriage registration started no parents are mentioned in Catholic or Protestant marriage registers and no ages for bride or groom, just their names townland and the 2 witnesses, to identify parents you need the baptism.

https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Roman-Catholic-baptism.html
and for a county listing
https://www.findmypast.com/articles/ireland-roman-catholic-parish-baptisms-parish-list

https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/irish-naming-conventions-and-baptism-traditions
https://www.aletterfromireland.com/irish-naming-patterns/
and a lot of McCaffreys as you say
https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=McCaffrey

[shanreagh]

just a reminder:   

Don't forget to let us have the names of Hugh McCaffrey's children in brith date order.  It doesn't matter where they were born as many Irish emigrants still  used the naming patterns whereever they were in the world. 

[eileenwilson]

Their son Charles was born and baptized in Quebec in 1823 indicating he was illegitimate, altho' naming Hugh as his father and Rose as his mother suggesting the couple married after that date, or perhaps being a mixed marriage.

An earlier baptism for son Guillaume (William) in 1822 says he was born of the legitimate marriage of the couple.  The father declared he could not sign his name.

There was then a Catherine in 1826, a Margaret in 1830, a Mary in 1834.  The 1861 census also lists a Francis (b. abt. 1831), Lisa (b. abt. 1838), and Agnes (b. abt. 1845).  Hugh is still alive in this census, aged 75.

[shanreagh]

Thanks Eileen. Where are these records coming from please?  Are they from Family Search births or just the Census? 

So
OP's 5th gt grandmother born at sea 1814 apx?
William  born??    Canada 1822
Charles born Quebec  Canada 1823
Rose  1824-26
Catherine born born??    Canada 1826
Rose 1824 -26
Margaret born??    Canada   1830
Franci/es born??    Canada 1831
Lisa born??    Canada  1838
Agnes born??    Canada 1845

There are some gaps particularly in the years of the first born 1814/1822 & 1826/1830 & poss 1838 & 1845. 

If William and Rose came over with the Army apx 1814 we are missing this birth.
Based on Canadian census records, their first child (my 5th great-grandmother) was born at sea as they crossed over to Canada. so 1814 ? And I wonder what her name was?

[eileenwilson]

Catholic parish records for St. Frederic in Drummondville, Quebec (from Ancestry).

There is also the marriage of a daughter Rose in 1846. Indicates she is of age, so at least 18, who slots in the list of children somewhere.

There is a marriage in the same church in 1845 for an Ann McCaffery, daughter of Patrick McCaffery and Catherine Fitzpatrick of County Fermanagh, who may a relation.  There are other McCaffery families being churched in St. Frederic in the same timeframe. A full extraction of these records may provide some clues.

[eileenwilson]

Burial record for Hugh in Nicolet, Quebec -- died 19 February 1870, buried on the 22nd.  Aged 88 years, five days. Born 15 February 1782, Aughaluchre (sic), County Fermanagh, husband of the late Rose McAvoy

https://www.ancestry.ca/imageviewer/collections/1091/images/d13p_25561061?treeid=&personid=&queryId=1101b40c-fd89-4796-a139-83d6c49c4272&usePUB=true&_phsrc=yRe4800&_phstart=successSource&pId=855701

[shanreagh]

Catholic parish records for St. Frederic in Drummondville, Quebec (from Ancestry).

There is also the marriage of a daughter Rose in 1846. Indicates she is of age, so at least 18, who slots in the list of children somewhere.

There is a marriage in the same church in 1845 for an Ann McCaffery, daughter of Patrick McCaffery and Catherine Fitzpatrick of County Fermanagh, who may a relation.  There are other McCaffery families being churched in St. Frederic in the same timeframe. A full extraction of these records may provide some clues.

Yes I have come across Patrick/Catherine/ Ann  as well while looking.  a good reminder about patterns of immigration where one of a family or village will make the move and once those left back home hear that it is going well they will follow...ie chain migration. 

[gleblanc]

Hi, so as requested by some of you below here are the children and dates of Hugh, even though I have all the records, like I said. We are aware of a few other McCaffrey families around Drummondville at that time where Hugh had a nephew named John McCaffrey (as stated in his testament). Through birth and marriage records, I have positively identified this Hugh McCaffrey and his wife Rose McAvoy as my ancestors, from my mother lineage and no others. But I will look into the other McCaffreys as suggested below because they could indeed be relatives.

The R.C. couple of Hugh and Rose would have had to be married abroad before having their first child Mary Ann who was born at sea coming over. There are no marriage records for them in Canada. Please note that Hugh was illiterate and always signed with an "X". So, their children in chronological order:

1- Mary Ann (born at sea coming over, abt. 1814, according to several census), married James Heney in 1842 in St-Francois-Du-Lac. She had four children: Thomas, Anne (my 4th great grand-mother), Daniel, and James jr.
2- James Hugh (b. 1816 d. 1887 in Quebec city), married Catherine Morin and had four children.
3- Jane (b. 1818 d. unknown ), married Edouard Lafond in 1834, had two children.
4- Rose Ann (b.1820 d.1900), married James Meagher in 1845, had seven children.
5- William (Guillaume) (b. 1822 d. 1822).
6- Charles (b. 1823 d. 1905), married Mary Ann McLeod in 1862, had five children. We are unsure about the "illegitimate" mention. Charles opened a woodmill in Nicolet and Hugh went to stay with him there after Rose's death and until his own death.
7- Catherine (b. 1826 d. 1888), married Jean Beliveau in 1858 and had three children.
8- Francis (b. 1828 d. 1907), married Loellah Marie Stoddard in 1860 and had 14 children. He was also in the woodmill business in Nicolet with his brother Charles.
9- Margaret (b. 1930 d. 1875), married Pierre Desbarats in 1855.
10- Unnamed child (b. 1833 d. 1833)
11- Elizabeth (Eliza) (b. 1839 d. 1902), married Maxime Crepeau in 1869 and had at least one child.
12- Agnes (b. 1845 d. 1906 in New Hampshire, USA), married Thomas Hart and had 8 children.

I have all the official records and historical documentation for the above. St-Frederic parish was Drummondville's until it was moved to the new St-Germain-de-Grantham parish in 1851. So most records are found in either one and also in St-Jean Baptiste cathedral in Nicolet, and in St-Francois-Du-Lac. Those are all within 4 miles of each other, except Nicolet about 10 miles away.

Many thanks.