Katherine Alice GREENLEES nee MURRAY

[haney]

Hi Everyone
    I am doing research on the above who was married to JOHN GREENLEES in 1906, the family lived in the Balmain area.

Katherine I think was born as Catherine A MURRAY in 1887 to John Patrick MURRAY and Sophia E. LOWDER/EN.  I'm not sure of the exact spelling of Sophias name but a John MURRAY married a Sophia LOWDER in Sydney in 1892.

Katherine died in 1973 listed on BDM as parents are John Patrick and SAPPHIRE (lol) typo?? perhaps.

So today's journey is trying to find the origins of JOHN PATRICK MURRAY and SOPHIA Elizabeth LOWDER etc spellings.

John Patrick MURRAY is supposedly born in Sydney in 1854,  no verification of that so far though.

The Greenlees family seem to be Mariners in the Balmain area or at least involved in boats/ships etc.  Many thanks kind regards Dianna

[CassT]

Hi,
well there is a tree for SOPHIA Elizabeth LOWDER on Ancestry
Sophia Elizabeth Lowder
BIRTH 26 JAN 1865 • Dalby, Queensland, DEATH 17 APR 1939 • Ryde, New South Wales
Cemetery   Field of Mars Cemetery Ryde (there is a funeral notice in SMH 18.4.1939)
2 marriages
Marriage 31 Aug 1886   Patrick John Murray
Marriage 1919 • Glebe, New South Wales Joseph Owen (Joe) Ellis

Patrick John Murray
BIRTH 18 MAR 1853 • Sydney, DEATH 21 FEB 1904 • Sydney
parents
Caroline Catherine Carty
BIRTH ABT 1835 • Cork, Longford, Ireland DEATH 12 MAY 1879 • *Infirmary, Sydney
Richard Thomas Murray
BIRTH ABT DEC 1831 • Sydney, NSW, Australia DEATH 22 NOV 1861 • St Vincents Hospital, Sydney,

Cass

ps there is a photo of Sophia grave/headstone on this site
https://nmclm.com.au/find-a-loved-one/?site_id=6037

PM

NSW BDM   Death MURRAY PATRICK J562/1904 JOHN R KATHERINE BALMAIN NORTH

[mckha489]

Probably different family, but possibitky for mixups here

Trove has a death of a 14 months old son, named John Patrick, of John Murray and Sophia.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/199733435?searchTerm=Sophia%20Murray

That seems to match this birth
MURRAY
Jno Pat
Birth
Mother  Sophia
Mothers name at birth GREEN
Father  Jno Francis
Place - MYRTLEFORD
1891
15446/1891

[mckha489]

What does the 1892 marriage certificate tell you?

[haney]

Hi thank you!
I knew this was going to be a tough one.  I have the daughter KATHERINE A MURRAY born in 1887 spelt Catherine on BDM. 

Therefore the marriage of the parents seem's "off".  I may have to start at Scratch I think.

I don't have the marriage certificate!  I think I may have to begin with the certificate of the birth of daughter Katherine and go backwards. 

Alway's hoping that some other researchers have certs on their tree's.  Better start again.  LOL many thanks Dianna

[haney]

Okay firstly I cannot find a marriage in 1886 31 August for a PATRICK JOHN or JOHN MURRAY to Sophia!!

The first birth is Catherine a in Newcastle in 1887 then they seem to be in Five Dock/Ryde area's

I will have to go over this with a fine tooth comb. LOL Thanks

[CassT]

A possibility

NSW BDM   marriage   1291/1892 MURRAY JOHN P   LOWDER SOPHIA SYDNEY

Cass

[haney]

Hi Cass thanks for that.  That is the one I thought of!  But considering the first child was born 1887??  Maybe illegitimate???

Maybe I need the death certificate of the Sophia ELLIS 1939!  See what is mentioned there.  If she is the widow of JOHN P MURRAY.

It's a hard one!!  Many thanks Dianna

I looked on Queesnsland BDM for a birth of SOPHIA E LOWDER.  Not there!! At least it is a process of elimination and "checking" the trees on ancestry. 

[CassT]

yes, the funeral notice for Sophia Ellis in the SMH 18.4.1939, states formerly Murray, I cannot find a death notice so we don't have a notice with her children's names, so looks like the death cert might have the answers.
Cass