Looking for Great GF from Denmark background on Paternal Grandfather's line.

[gregory tree]

Hi, I have found from DNA matches that my paternal Grandfather's father named on his BDM records is not his biological father so I am looking for the son of either a family in Queensland or a cousin of theirs still in Denmark, maybe, who was in Sydney, NSW around the time of the Commonwealth of Australia inauguration celebrations - January 1901 - my GF was born 21 September 1901 in Balmain, NSW, and a step daughter of his mother had a daughter 1 month earlier with no father named as well -born August 1901.

I have many matches on Ancestry and MyHeritage that support a Great GF from Denmark - possibly a seaman - definitely I would say a seaman.

One of the DNA matches on MyHeritage is also on Ancestry and matches some of the ones in Gladstone, Bundaberg area in Queensland, Australia. I think the closer connection is in Denmark and so on MyHeritage platform which I am not as familiar with.

I have been able to put together a tree connecting both platform's DNA matches - a bit messy. I saw in another similar topic that someone had an Anonymous tree with their DNA matches laid out very neatly with just Male/Female/Son/Daughter etc and the cMs and segments and largest segment - very organised.

Anyway if anyone is familiar with both MyHeritage and Ancestry DNA perhaps they could offer some pointers. I really need to do my tree like the one I saw if there is a template for that somewhere.

My Grandfather was named James Alfred GREGORY 1901-1957 born at 22 Waterview Street, Balmain 21 September 1901 where his named father had the lease from 1899-1904 but died in Nov 1903. He was about 18 years older than his third wife who he married in Fitzroy, Victoria in 1888. His previous wife had died in 1886 in Balmain and their daughter is the step daughter of my GF's mother I mentioned that had the daughter 1 month before my GF was born - so in August 1901.

My GF's mother was Margaret Hannah 'Maggie' JOYCE 1869-1925 born Hobart, Tasmania. Daughter of William JOYCE and Ellen FERRIS married 1867 in Hobart.

Thanks for reading this long introduction to my request.

[Biggles50]

There are quite a few different avenues of research that you could follow.

I’d start by downloading your Ancestry RAW DNA and uploading it to Gedmatch and myFTDNA and then just wait while further matches are processed.

Meanwhile learn how to use the tools available in both My Heritage and Gedmatch.

Read up on using DNA Painter’s WATO and other tools like their Chromosome Painter, etc.

If you have a tree based on the suspected Father, look on Social Media for any descendents of them and make contact.

If fact try to make contact with any DNA match who may be able to help.

I’m not sure on the take up of DNA matches currently b&b in Denmark so in the end it may be a waiting game.

I’ve been waiting for 8 years for one of my 100+cM matches to find where they link into my tree, there are hundreds on “John Smith” births in the period 1940 to 1980 when said DNA match was probably born, I know that part of his ancestry is from Cheshire as is mine so he is somewhere in my GGF’s line.

As it is you seem to be on the right track.

[coombs]

Can I ask what your documented great grandfather did for a living, and where he was in late 1900/early 1901? Could he have been working away at the time of your grandfather's conception?

[TreeDigger]

I have been able to put together a tree connecting both platform's DNA matches - a bit messy. I saw in another similar topic that someone had an Anonymous tree with their DNA matches laid out very neatly [...] I really need to do my tree like the one I saw if there is a template for that somewhere.

I'm afraid there is no template for that (my) tree, it's all free hand.
 
However, for visualization sake you could browse the internet for the latest free version of GenoPro (version 1.70 or 2.0 Beta) which you can then use to combine your different platform matches and rebuild your tree, using the 'text' option to add both cM and segment info. The end result should be quite similar to what I did.

The other option is to do what I did: simply use Microsoft Paint. You can even copy my tree (it's OK) and paste it in Paint, blank out all the info and move things around per your need. Whichever suits you best.

[gregory tree]

Can I ask what your documented great grandfather did for a living, and where he was in late 1900/early 1901? Could he have been working away at the time of your grandfather's conception?

My documented GGF was a Hotel Broker, but at other times a Clerk in a hotel, Hotel Waiter in older age closer to his death in 1903 I think.
 A farm/Ag. labourer in his youth.

It is unknown where he was on 31st March 1901 when NSW had a Census. His wife is named at their address 22 Waterview St, Balmain and the number of males & females suggests he and his daughter from the previous marriage were not present.

In 1891 he was on that Census as JS Gregory at 6 Batty St, Balmain and number of males & females suggests all present at that time 2M[ales] he & baby son born 1890 and 2F[emales] his wife and daughter from previous marriage.

I believe John Samuel Gregory may have taken his daughter to find the culprit responsible for her condition and he perhaps believed himself responsible for his wife's condition, not sure. He was the informant on my Grandfather's birth registration though, and I believe either way only the husband's name could go on the birth record no matter who the biological father was claimed to be.

I would love to know his whereabouts at conception but I think he would have been in Sydney although there were celebrations happening in other capital cities including Brisbane. B

Him being a Hotel Broker for a fair period in his career makes me feel he may have had an association with the family from Nth Queensland and the MRCA [most recent common ancestor] the father of the DNA matches Ancestors [all siblings] on that side owned a hotel and drank himself to death apparently - his wife took on the Hotel Licence after that. They were Neils Christian DAHL 1840-1900  and Ellen Marie (Marion) Nielsen 1842-1924.

[gregory tree]

I have been able to put together a tree connecting both platform's DNA matches - a bit messy. I saw in another similar topic that someone had an Anonymous tree with their DNA matches laid out very neatly [...] I really need to do my tree like the one I saw if there is a template for that somewhere.

I'm afraid there is no template for that (my) tree, it's all free hand.
 
However, for visualization sake you could browse the internet for the latest free version of GenoPro (version 1.70 or 2.0 Beta) which you can then use to combine your different platform matches and rebuild your tree, using the 'text' option to add both cM and segment info. The end result should be quite similar to what I did.

The other option is to do what I did: simply use Microsoft Paint. You can even copy my tree (it's OK) and paste it in Paint, blank out all the info and move things around per your need. Whichever suits you best.

Thank you - I will try that as adding text to a Screen shot image is freehand and that is the messy part of my combined tree.  I will add what I have and see if you can follow it.  I do have my DNA GGF as a son of the MRCA of all the Nth Queensland matches but I now believe he was more likely a cousin of theirs so I have him maybe under the wrong sister but left him there as I don't have all the info on all the cousins as I need to do more research in Denmark records and I am not good at that. Having trouble even following the matches trees on MyHeritage due to the naming conventions  used. So confusing. I do however have the 2nd cousins from that image that are on MyH and both are on GEDmatch as well and 1 on Ancestry.

So I have my GGF as son to sister Ellen Nielsen in this image but he may be a son of the other sister - note too that my highest match overall is on MyHeritage -Birthe born Rasmussen in 1940-2022 and her grand aunt also married a Nielsen. The dates for other senarios just didn't throw up anyone due to the DOB of the ones I could see. As someone said to me after I sent him the combined tree - this requires a lot of research.
I do not have the Nth Queensland DNA matches on this but they are from at least 4 children of Ellen Nielsen and Niels Dahl - there are 8 DNA matches from them in ThruLines on Ancestry and 2 more from sister Ane Katrine Nielsen and Rasmus Johansen - Dan [below] & his sister [not in the image].

The other image is my matches to the other 2 on MyH that are also on GEDmatch and shows that the 3 of us [Dan Allan and me] match on Ch 2 and 6, I think.

[gregory tree]

There are quite a few different avenues of research that you could follow.

I’d start by downloading your Ancestry RAW DNA and uploading it to Gedmatch and myFTDNA and then just wait while further matches are processed.

Meanwhile learn how to use the tools available in both My Heritage and Gedmatch.

Read up on using DNA Painter’s WATO and other tools like their Chromosome Painter, etc.

If you have a tree based on the suspected Father, look on Social Media for any descendents of them and make contact.

If fact try to make contact with any DNA match who may be able to help.

I’m not sure on the take up of DNA matches currently b&b in Denmark so in the end it may be a waiting game.

I’ve been waiting for 8 years for one of my 100+cM matches to find where they link into my tree, there are hundreds on “John Smith” births in the period 1940 to 1980 when said DNA match was probably born, I know that part of his ancestry is from Cheshire as is mine so he is somewhere in my GGF’s line.

As it is you seem to be on the right track.

Thank you I need to learn how to use Wato - I have dabbled - same with the others you mentioned. Thank you

On my way out now so will get back to this maybe not until Friday as away tomorrow for the day.

Thanks all who have replied - much appreciated and any thoughts on this tree, of sorts, would also be appreciated but I must go now.

[TreeDigger]

I've made a quick & dirty tree incorporating all the information provided above using GenoPro.

Color codes refer to cM matches. Relationships & percentages underneath the boxes refer to the Unknown Great Grandparent being a son of Ellen Nielsen & Niels Dahl; parenthesized relationships & percentages within the boxes refer to OP's hypothesis of the UGG being a son of Ane Nielsen & Rasmus Johansen. The percentages are based on results from dna-sci dot com, as they also use segments in calculations.

Mind that other relationships that fall outside of these particular percentages are still possible, though less likely.

[coombs]

Can I ask what your documented great grandfather did for a living, and where he was in late 1900/early 1901? Could he have been working away at the time of your grandfather's conception?

My documented GGF was a Hotel Broker, but at other times a Clerk in a hotel, Hotel Waiter in older age closer to his death in 1903 I think.
 A farm/Ag. labourer in his youth.

It is unknown where he was on 31st March 1901 when NSW had a Census. His wife is named at their address 22 Waterview St, Balmain and the number of males & females suggests he and his daughter from the previous marriage were not present.

In 1891 he was on that Census as JS Gregory at 6 Batty St, Balmain and number of males & females suggests all present at that time 2M[ales] he & baby son born 1890 and 2F[emales] his wife and daughter from previous marriage.

I believe John Samuel Gregory may have taken his daughter to find the culprit responsible for her condition and he perhaps believed himself responsible for his wife's condition, not sure. He was the informant on my Grandfather's birth registration though, and I believe either way only the husband's name could go on the birth record no matter who the biological father was claimed to be.

I would love to know his whereabouts at conception but I think he would have been in Sydney although there were celebrations happening in other capital cities including Brisbane. B

Him being a Hotel Broker for a fair period in his career makes me feel he may have had an association with the family from Nth Queensland and the MRCA [most recent common ancestor] the father of the DNA matches Ancestors [all siblings] on that side owned a hotel and drank himself to death apparently - his wife took on the Hotel Licence after that. They were Neils Christian DAHL 1840-1900  and Ellen Marie (Marion) Nielsen 1842-1924.

It is likely he may have worked away from home at times, even as a hotel waiter or was visiting people in Queensland for certain amounts of time, and may have been doing so around the time of conception of your grandfather, and at the 1901 Australian census.