Author Topic: John McNEILL - who's his father?  (Read 715 times)

Offline Jon_ni

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 14 March 24 04:32 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Could you pl  provide a link to the application to join the Civil Service in 1867
British Civil Service Evidence of Age
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBOR/CSEOA/00037885

"I Daniel McNeill of Larne in the County of Antrim, Flesher, do solemenly and sincerely declare that my Son John McNeill nominated for the situation of Rural Post Messenger was born on the Second day of November 1848, and is now above 18 years of age."

And I make this solem declaration conscientionly believing the same to be true.
Declared at Larne 10 Jan 1867 by declarant Daniel McNeill (X his mark) and signed by a Justice of the Peace taking the declaration. Witnessed also by Postmaster James Reath.

Accompanying note with 1d Inland Revenue stamp attached.
"I have examined and find that John M'Neill Son of Daniel M'Neill and Rose Barry was baptised in November 1848" Francis W Kenna, PP [Parish Priest] Larne, Jany 7, 1867.

I would therefore say you are conflating 2 totally disparate events different fathers, occupation and religious denominations, although which one is valid for your tree is unclear. Perhaps need to work back again from the 1901/11 census using his children to confirm mother's maiden surname and denomination and verify/locate the correct marriage entry. Or just discount this Civil Service application.

The register for the 1848 is missing on NLI https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1142 It could be in PRONI, they only give an overall range in their guide.
but "It was not until 1852 that Larne and Ballygowan became separate parishes and the first church was built by Fr Arthur O’Neill on the site of an old disused slaughterhouse in 1831 and basically this is St MacNissi’s today.
Two priests in particular, figure high in the development of Catholicism in the town of Larne - Fr Francis McKenna, parish priest here for 41 years in Victorian times"
https://www.facebook.com/MacNissi/posts/this-article-was-published-in-the-larne-times-on-june-9th-2009st-macnissis-churc/839407006107731/

Consulting eCat whilst the period is missing in MIC1D/68 it seems to to present in MIC1D/90/1
Description:1828-83: Copy of a register of baptisms 1828-83; and of marriages 1828-82. Up to Easter 1852 the entries relate to the Roman Catholic parishes of Larne, Carrickfergus and Ballygowan.

Offline shanreagh

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 14 March 24 05:55 GMT (UK) »
Good thoughts Jon_ni. I think joining the civil service as a Rural Post messenger and then being a sailor 8 years later is a bit unlikely...though I guess stranger things have happened. 

Surely OP should have worked back from themselves and will know the children of the John who was a sailor and married in 1875.  This being so I am not sure how there can be a choice. As you say there may be conflation. 

It would be great if OP could let us know the names of the O'Neill family that they are confident they link back to.  Then we can start afresh.   

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 14 March 24 07:02 GMT (UK) »

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Jemima Allen McNeil born Belfast 4/9/1900

IrishGenealogy has it transcribed as Gemma born at 1 Cultra Street.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01988/1765228.pdf


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo

Offline shanreagh

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 14 March 24 07:04 GMT (UK) »

Quote
Jemima Allen McNeil born Belfast 4/9/1900

IrishGenealogy has it transcribed as Gemma born at 1 Cultra Street.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01988/1765228.pdf

I got the ref off Family Search


Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 14 March 24 07:14 GMT (UK) »


2.  John McNEILL's occupation in 1901 was 'sea captain', resident in Belfast


1901 census - Mc Neill
House 1 in Cultra Street (Duncairn Ward, Antrim).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward/Cultra_Street/957730/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000312097/
John describes himself as a 'seafaring man' and born Co Antrim.

Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 14 March 24 08:08 GMT (UK) »

Mary Elizabeth McNeill died on 25 May 1901 at 159 Alexandra Park Avenue, Belfast. Her son Joseph was the informant.    #223
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05730/4617183.pdf

Occupants of grave D 506, City Cemetery.
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=D&GraveNumber=506&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery#MOVEHERE


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo

Offline garlands

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 14 March 24 10:06 GMT (UK) »
Whoa!  You generous people are overwhelming me with your kindness and it's going to take me a while to get to grips with all the information you've provided.

In the mean-time, can I return to a question from Scotmum asking about what research I'd done? This was all several years ago so I've re-visited it and might have to admit that it's beginning to look to me as if the Civil Servant/Daniel McNEILL line is a red herring.

It all starts with:-

22 Mar 1905  John McNEILL born to Joseph & Elizabeth (nee WHITE) of 21 Michael St, Belfast
                                                     a barber

John eventually joined the Merchant Navy and died on 29 Jul 1940 following an attack on his ship by the Luftwaffe off the north coast of Scotland.

26 Mar 1880  Joseph McNEILL born to John & Mary (nee WAUGH) of 1 Cultra St, Belfast
                                                    Master Mariner

23 Dec 1901  Joseph McNEILL  m  Elizabeth Hunter WHITE in St Anne's C of I, Belfast
                     Hair dresser
                     2 Carnalea St                  7 Michael St
           Father: John McNEILL               Benjamin WHITE
                      Sea Captain                     Labourer

That's as far as I'd managed to get because of a lack of on-line records. Returning to the search after a gap of some half-a-dozen years, I made the mistake of looking for the birth of John (senior) when I should have been looking for his marriage which, as you all now know, must be that which took place on 17 Feb 1875 between John McNEILL and Mary Elizabeth WAUGH.

It was only when I looked more carefully at the birth and marriage records that I realised that I now had two putative fathers whom I couldn't reconcile, and that's when I appealed for your help. I believe that I now have the answer to my question and I must, therefore, apologise to you all for starting a wild goose chase when I should have gone back to basics (as suggested by Scotmum).

I'm sorry that I've wasted so much of your time, and I'm truly grateful for all you've done.

Thank you.
BENNETT, DAW, DYER, GARLAND, LEAT, SNELL, Devon
CONDY, DREW, GOLDSWORTHY, GONINAN, PENHALURICK, ROWE, TIPPET, WASLEY, Cornwall
NEWMAN, PERRIN, Gloucs
EVANS,  Hereford
BAKER, Somerset
RICHARDS, Brecknock
FRANCIS, Glam
ALBAN, Carmarthen
WILLIAMS, Gower

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 14 March 24 10:58 GMT (UK) »


23 Dec 1901  Joseph McNEILL  m  Elizabeth Hunter WHITE in St Anne's C of I, Belfast
                     Hair dresser
                     2 Carnalea St                  7 Michael St
           Father: John McNEILL               Benjamin WHITE
                      Sea Captain                     Labourer


https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10323/5758186.pdf

Joseph with his family in 1911 census.
House 5 in Michael Street (Dock Ward, Antrim).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Michael_Street/137989/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001411594/

Actual number and address - 13 Michael Street.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001411595/


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: John McNEILL - who's his father?
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 14 March 24 11:06 GMT (UK) »

OP, do you have the death of John McNeill?
This is likely to be the death record - died 14 April 1917 at 11 Whitla Street. Informant his son Joseph McNeill.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05216/4443076.pdf

Buried in the Glenalina Extension of City Cemetery - H 365
Also in the grave are his son Joseph, daughter-in-law Eliza and granddaughter Margaret.
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=H&GraveNumber=365&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery%20-%20Glenalina%20Extension#MOVEHERE


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo