Author Topic: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s  (Read 317 times)

Offline JanSeifert

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more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« on: Thursday 14 March 24 10:13 GMT (UK) »
I thought to streamline the process and will put all my problems with the document at hand in one thread.
This is from the manuscript collection of the British Library (IOR/L/PS/19/36), the (undated) copy of a private diary of Robert Boileau Pemberton of a tour from Manipur via Ava to Arakan in 1830, which is my current transliteration project. Sadly it is unclear by whom and where the copying was done. As the manuscript is slightly longer (166 ~A4 pages), it has obviously been copied over a period of time. From the look of the hand, in my opinion, there was more than one writer involved; there is a change of flourish from page 103 onwards. Otherwise the text has the usually marks of an official document of the time. The first word of the page is repeated at the bottom of the previous page. The pages are also numbered, but the numbering seems to be done as an afterthought, again in a different hand. There is also a margin on the left side of the pages, used exclusively for marking the day of the entry in the diary. The original I have not been able to source yet.

There are added commas and full stops which were used in the original text rather haphazardly. These are mine, just to make sense of the text. I might have wrongly interpreted the beginnings or ends of the sentences.
Jan

Offline JanSeifert

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Re: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 14 March 24 10:18 GMT (UK) »
page 49 (I start in the middle, previous problems I will post later)

the text of the snippet goes:
»

he expressed himself very grateful & regretted that not being at his own
village he was unable to make me any offering of fruit &ca. I told him
I accepted the will for the deed & was quite as much gratified as if it had
been presented[.] while these mutual ? were passing[,] 5 or 6 men
arrived leaving a little figure of a dancing girl about a foot long -

«


Offline fiddlerslass

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Re: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 14 March 24 11:36 GMT (UK) »
Civilities
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR & N. YKS,
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Endesfelder & others from Czechia

Offline JanSeifert

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Re: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 14 March 24 11:40 GMT (UK) »
marvellous! Thank you!


Online heywood

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Re: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 14 March 24 11:46 GMT (UK) »
I don’t know what it is but I don’t see that word.
I think it begins with ‘cruit…’
If you look at the ‘r’ in ‘offering’ and ‘grateful’ for comparison.
Also ‘ui’ in ‘quite’

Added
The ‘v’ in ‘village’ is written differently to the ‘u’ in other words.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline JanSeifert

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Re: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 14 March 24 12:04 GMT (UK) »
I don’t know what it is but I don’t see that word.
I think it begins with ‘cruit…’
If you look at the ‘r’ in ‘offering’ and ‘grateful’ for comparison.
Also ‘ui’ in ‘quite’

Added
The ‘v’ in ‘village’ is written differently to the ‘u’ in other words.

I am quite sure civilities hits the spot. In most of these documents context is the only help. I am also more and more convinced that copying texts (letters mostly) for official purposes was done word by word without regard to the text itself. In that way the manuscript is an interpretation of the copyist of what he could decipher from the original. I have spellings of place names that vary within 10 lines three times! As much as I would hope for it, consistency in shapes of different letters is low, too. There is so many influences on the writing – paper, ink, and pen quality, also the daily capability of the Clerk &ca. &ca.

And then here I come – trying again to interpret that interpretation  ;D
Its a tedious business... (see: earlier thread)

Regarding the v in village and other words. v in the beginning of a word looks different most of the time. there is also no continuity in spelling, using big and small letters quite haphazardly. River is, for example, always written »River«, never »river«. Even names are sometimes written with small letters. There seems to be no system.

Thanks for the input though!
J.

Online heywood

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Re: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 14 March 24 12:25 GMT (UK) »
No problem.
‘Civilities’ does seem to fit in the context.
If it is copied and the scribe wrote what they saw/interpreted, I can understand that.
The style of writing, however, is different to that in your earlier thread.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline JanSeifert

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Re: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 14 March 24 12:31 GMT (UK) »
The other thread was an original. Written in the field. Compared to that the copied text is childs play...
(I also seem to have picked up something on the way in these four years. Today I am hindered mostly by my slow typing, reading is - with exceptions - the easier part).

J.

Offline JanSeifert

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Re: more strange words from a copied document from the 1830s
« Reply #8 on: Monday 18 March 24 10:08 GMT (UK) »
here another enigma from the text. I am sorry the photograph of the page is rather blurred.

text goes:
»

by people who were wholly ignorant of each others language
& frequently thought of poor Chopperton(?) & his walking ?(turn?) of a
widow of zarra. but as far as personal attrctions go I have decidedly
the advantage of the African traveller, for he candidly acknowledges
that his widow was far from attraction while my dulciana is
in the bloom of youth and beauty & calculated excite the spirit of an
anchorite.
were I able to converse with her without the intervention
of an interpreter I might perhaps lose my head, but as this is
not the case, I am not likely to be fettered by the bands of Burmese
female beauty. we set out with a boisterous wind which soarred <sic> so
much during the day that we were constantly driven in Lee
shore and passed between the channels of the different islands

«

Does anyone understand the context? There is also a word I do not understand, marked ? in the text.