Struggling

[NorthernGeezer]

A different Duncan??.............................I'm with you on that one Forfarian, so the search in England goes on.

[Neale1961]

A nice start Neale1961, thanks, it means I've found the right mother and can assume her father William is dead, I just have to find out whether it was in the USA or England now.

Well, we have found the right mother AND father, and that Jane Perry was born in Middlesex/ London abt 1834. The family were involved in gold leaf making and gold beating.
As father, William, is not with the family in the 1841 census, it is probable that he had died before then.

I don't know that there is any link to Wiltshire for the Perry family - why do you think so?

[Andrew C.]

There are very few McArthurs in England in 1841 I only see three households with McArthurs present. I have no knowledge of USA records. What is the difficulty in getting the marriage certificate?

[Neale1961]

Frederick Perry born 1829/1830 Middlesex – son of William and Mary Ann

MARRIAGE  11 Sept 1853 Holy Innocents Manhattan NY
Frederick PERRY age 24 bachelor (born England) to Mary Elizabeth MOORE

In the 1855 census NY Frederick and Wife are living next door to his brother Charles (George) in Kings, Brooklyn.
Frederick is also working as a gold beater.

1870 census they are in Kings, Brooklyn NY. Frederick is working as a silver beater. Daughter Jane 14, son James 1

[Andrew C.]

I thought you were going to say he started a line of polo shirts!

[NorthernGeezer]

The Wiltshire Jane Perry clearly isn't the right one Neale191, at least it eliminates that line of enquiry, ditto with the Walsall Jane Perry.

Frederick and Margaret, neither are listed on the 1850 census, and neither is Charles wife, Barnett


Somethings not right.........................

Mary Ann Perry, 49, is listed on line 28, page 169 of 590 on the 1850 census for Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States.
Charles is listed the next line down, age 24, Jane the next line down, age 27, Duncan the next line down at 28.
Frederick and Margaret, neither are listed on the 1850 census, and neither is Charles wife, Barnett

Fast forward 10 years to the 1860 census, Morrisania, Westchester, New York, United States, Jane is still listed 27, Duncan is listed as 37, Mary Ann, 60, no sign of Charles, Barnett, Frederick or Margaret though.

Fast forward 10 years to the 1870 census, Westchester, New York, United States, Jane is listed as 37, Duncan 47, no sign of Mary Ann, probably died.

Fast forward 10 years to the 1880 census, Morrisania, Westchester, New York, United States, Jane is listed as 44, Duncan 54.

So, I'm more confused than ever now, unless the age for Jane is a misprint on the 1850 census and she was 17 not 27, which would actually tie in with her death in 1903 age 69.

Now, the 1841 UK census........................
Mary Ann listed age 40, no sign of William though................dead or working elsewhere at the time of the census?
Charles listed age 15, which would have put him as 24 at the time of the 1850 USA census.
Jane listed as age 7 which would have put her at 16 in 1850, which is near enough for her age to be 10 years out.
Fredrick 10 and Margaret 5 listed in 1841 but not in 1850, can we assume the worse or something else.

So, its coming together I think with a few loose ends to tie up.

[Ladyhawk]

1870/1880 US census his occ Custom House Broker
1850 US census Duncan McArthur occ Clerk

As Forfarian mentions he may have travelled before 1841 census

For info…… there is this Duncan McArthur but he’s born in Scotland 

1851 census Abbotsford Place, 33, Gorbals, Laurieston, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Elizabeth   McArthur   Head   Widow 1787 House proprietor Port Glasgow, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Elizabeth   Phillips   Daughter   Widow 1815   Annuitant   Port Glasgow, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Alexander   McArthur   Servant 1826   Clerk (shipping office) Port Glasgow, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Charles   Henderson   Grand son   1833   Clerk (shipping office)   -
James   Phillips   Grand son   1838   Clerk in a (bonded store)   Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Elizabeth   Phillips   Grand dau 1840   Scholar   Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Mary   Phillips   Grand daughter   1843   Scholar   Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Ann   Phillips   Grand daughter   1845   Scholar   Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
DUNCAN McArthur   Son   Unmarried 1821   Clerk (customs) Port Glasgow, Renfrewshire
Marion Easton Servant Unmarried   1816   House servant   Bo'ness, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian),
Agnes   Kennedy   Step sister   Unmarried   1834   House servant   Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

1841 census Shore Street, Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Charles   McArthur   1773   Scotland
Elizabeth   McArthur   1786   Renfrewshire, Scotland
William   McArthur   1818   Renfrewshire, Scotland
DUNCAN  McArthur   1820   Renfrewshire, Scotland
Elizabeth   Phillips   1816   Renfrewshire, Scotland
James   Phillips.     1837   Scotland
Elizabeth   Phillips   1839   Scotland
Charles   Henderson    1832   Scotland
Susan   McCutchionb1806   Scotland
Marion   Easton1821   Scotland

FreeCEN shows Charles,occ ship chandler

[Neale1961]

Duncan MacArthur had a daughter named Edith born abt 1856 in New York.

She went off on a holiday to England and In the 1871 census is staying with a John Browning and his family in Hackney, London. John Browning is a butcher born abt 1809 in Holborn.
What is the connection to this family ? – Edith would not visit from America, unless the Brownings were somehow related.

Roll on hours of looking ….   To find ……

Baptism 1 Sep 1823 St James Clerkenwell for Duncan McArthur BROWNING
Born 14 June
Parents – Sarah and Duncan Browning – wine merchant, St John Street.

My guess at the moment is that she was Sarah McArthur, and possibly they were not married. The boy was perhaps reared by his mother or her family ?, and knew himself as Duncan McArthur.

I’m passing this one for others to look at further, as I have run out of time.
(I see there are some workhouse records for a Sarah McArthur in the Islington area, that I have not explored, so don't know if they are related to this).

[Ladyhawk]

You have been busy early this morning Neale! All I can add at the moment from the 1871 census you mention with Edith McArthur https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRN5-ZXJ
The mothers maiden name of the Browning daughters Elizabeth, Lavinia & Emily from GRO indexes is SULLINGS

Will take a look later to see if I can find a Duncan, wine merchant, Sarah & Duncan Mcarthur Browning together on 1841 census