Matches “By Parent”, “Plus”: Both Sides

[Lisa in California]

phil57, what a disappointment.  Hopefully, something in the near future will pop up to give you some answers.

I’m assuming that you’ve tried every conceivable spelling variation for the surname when looking at Ancestry matches?      I thought that I knew my Vaus variations, using Vaux and Vans - until I stumbled upon Vous, Voice, Nous and one other variation that was so odd that I can’t remember it.

I also suppose that you’ve searched on Ancestry only for the village (not typing any first or surname in the search)?

[Lisa in California]

I started looking at both matches results.

JS matches to
me - 16 cM, 3 segments
my son - 18 cM, 1 segment
my brother - 17 cM, 2 segments

JS has a small family tree.  I don’t recognize any surnames.  However, interestingly, his 3xgg was born in Little Dunmow, Essex at the same time that my Mumfords were living in Great Dunmow, which according to a current map, is a five minute drive between the towns.  Just a coincidence or possibly a connection?  I’ll research it eventually.

MH matches
me - 12 cM, 1 segment
my mum - 12 cM, 1 segment
my brother - 12 cM, 2 segments

However, her ancestors’ birthplaces are to vague to see any connection.  I most likely will not spend time trying to find a connection.

An interesting result, but not worth researching -
Em matches
me - 25 cM, 2 segments
my son - 18 cM, 1 segment
my mother - 11 cM, 1 segment
my brother - 21 cM, 2 segments

EM has 10 names in her tree; all were born in Dorset, England starting in 1830.  The tree is too brief to spend time exploring.

Excluding an error in the numbers (and given the fact that the cM are so minor), I don’t remember the answer - is it possible for a child to have more cM than a parent, please?

Added: I haven’t had time to read the previously mentioned link, I will read it today. 

[Ruskie]

I don’t have anything constructive to add Lisa, but just wanted to mention that I have many examples in my DNA results where I have a higher number of shared cms with a match than my father does.

My daughter often has very similar cms, and I think in some cases even higher than my father, her grandfather.

[Lisa in California]

Ruskie, thank you very much for letting me know.  I don’t believe I’ve ever paid attention to cM comparisons (especially for matches this low).  Thank you for your help. 

(It is interesting, though, about your daughter/grandfather cms.)

[TreeDigger]

Well I have a both sides match with 18cM who has a tree on Ancestry that contains Barons, Earls, Sirs and a Prime Minister from all over the British Isles

I would love to know how they connect to my Midlands ag. labs.

Was doing my kids' father's side and stumbled across a 17th Century document regarding 'the noble' origins of one ancestor (reason why he refused to pay certain taxes) due to descending from a 16th C bastard that had been acknowledged. Went on a research binge in the archives and managed to actually find the older document, only to discover that one of my ancestors was mentioned in it as well; both were the illegitimate offspring of two cousins 'sowing their oats' among the commoners 

Fairly certain there are many more cases like this in which the kids weren't acknowledged and/or documentation has been lost. And yes, the descendants of our noble bastards ended up stuck elbow deep in clay soil, growing produce 

[TreeDigger]

Excluding an error in the numbers (and given the fact that the cM are so minor), I don’t remember the answer - is it possible for a child to have more cM than a parent, please?

The answer is "yes".

It's the difference between IBD (Identical By Descent, sharing a theoretically traceable common ancestor within the past centuries) and IBS (Identical By State, sharing cultural/ethnic/geographical roots with a common ancestor in a murky past).

It happens that an IBS segment (which match & child happen to have in the same location) gets tacked on to a IBD segment.

[jaywit]

Well I have a both sides match with 18cM who has a tree on Ancestry that contains Barons, Earls, Sirs and a Prime Minister from all over the British Isles

I would love to know how they connect to my Midlands ag. labs.

Was doing my kids' father's side and stumbled across a 17th Century document regarding 'the noble' origins of one ancestor (reason why he refused to pay certain taxes) due to descending from a 16th C bastard that had been acknowledged. Went on a research binge in the archives and managed to actually find the older document, only to discover that one of my ancestors was mentioned in it as well; both were the illegitimate offspring of two cousins 'sowing their oats' among the commoners 

Fairly certain there are many more cases like this in which the kids weren't acknowledged and/or documentation has been lost. And yes, the descendants of our noble bastards ended up stuck elbow deep in clay soil, growing produce 

My thoughts were that at some time one of the 'nobles' had fathered an illegitimate child, but then how come they are connected to both sides when my maternal and paternal families lived in different counties?
Also looking at some of the lines ( many Wiki entries) they were part of the English aristocracy who basically ruled Ireland, I have no connections with Ireland.

[TreeDigger]

My thoughts were that at some time one of the 'nobles' had fathered an illegitimate child, but then how come they are connected to both sides when my maternal and paternal families lived in different counties?

Could be that, yes, it's just sheer coincidence.

But people tended to move around far more than previously thought. A bastard son, for instance, could be married off to a younger daughter from a minor family branch and then the pair shipped off to a small hold elsewhere in the country; landholding politics were very important back then.

However, chances of finding proof are very slim. My discovery (despite having experience in Medieval research) was really the result of being extremely lucky.

(multiple edits = lack of caffeine)

[Lisa in California]

Excluding an error in the numbers (and given the fact that the cM are so minor), I don’t remember the answer - is it possible for a child to have more cM than a parent, please?

The answer is "yes".

It's the difference between IBD (Identical By Descent, sharing a theoretically traceable common ancestor within the past centuries) and IBS (Identical By State, sharing cultural/ethnic/geographical roots with a common ancestor in a murky past).

It happens that an IBS segment (which match & child happen to have in the same location) gets tacked on to a IBD segment.

Thank you, TreeDigger.  I think I understand but if you could kindly share your caffeine, please, it might help.  Of course, I could try going to sleep at a normal time rather than popping in here at all hours of the night.  .