Author Topic: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)  (Read 2135 times)

Offline PatLac

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Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« on: Friday 22 March 24 00:24 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

I'm interested in any information regarding him, except from newspapers clippings on Trove, which I have already exhausted (pending new additions).

I think he was one of the sons (probably the eldest) of the 5th Lord of Aldborough, Mason Gerard Stratford with Mary Arundell.

'Edward' migrated to Australia after being sentenced to death in Leghorn, Tuscany, Italy, along with two brothers, Charles Alexander and Henry.

All historical narratives state the eldest son was Henry, who called himself the Lord of Aldborough, although he and his brothers and sisters were considered 'illegitimate' and the Earldom went to their half-brother Benjamin O'Neale Stratford.

My own research shows that Henry Mason was younger than 'Edward', and that he was probably called Henry Edward.

More information can be found on another thread, as the Stratfords also migratet to New Zealand.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=589081.0

Offline maddys52

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #1 on: Friday 22 March 24 03:17 GMT (UK) »
An obituary for the 6th Earl of Aldborough, Benjamin O'Neale STRATFORD says that he was the eldest child of Mason Gerard STRATFORD (5th Earl) and his wife Cornelia Jane TANDY. He died in 1875 aged 67 (born 10 June 1808).

If your Henry was "illegitimate", do you know who his mother was, or when he was born?

Modified to add:
Sorry, just re-read your post and see that his mother was Mary ARUNDELL. Where does this information come from?

Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 March 24 04:17 GMT (UK) »
What are you actually looking for now?

All this information is on your Cipher Mystery page:

https://ciphermysteries.com/2023/11/17/on-the-trail-of-dorothy-robertson

Offline maddys52

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #3 on: Friday 22 March 24 04:56 GMT (UK) »
You mention that you have read about the brothers extensively on trove - have you looked at UK newspapers? Many many items about the trial and subsequent events in 1851-2. No further details of their parentage, however in one they are described as:
"besides being without friends, or pecuniary expectations, they, from want of proper education, and from their previous mode of life, were quite incapable of earning their own livelihood ..."
Thursday,  July 15, 1852
Publication: North Devon Journal

A letter to the editor describes them as "half-bred Italians"
Saturday,  Jan. 17, 1852
Publication: Examiner


Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #4 on: Friday 22 March 24 12:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi maddys52,

Thanks, this is my next step, although the Australian newspapers published transcriptions of UK newspapers, and most of the information seems to be the same.

The problem with their dates of birth is that they had no permanent residence and the 5th Earl of Aldborough didn't want his offspring to be baptised, hence his wife Mary Arundell having them all baptised at once in 1850 at Leghorn.

This information is from the book 'The Anglo Florentines - The British in Tuscany (1814-1860).

Two of his sisters, Olivia and Georgina were dispatched to Plymouth and her ages are stated to be 18 and 17, respectively, in March 1851 (book 'Miss Sellon and the Sisters of Mercy. A contradiction of the alleged acts of cruelty exercided by Miss Sellon, and a refutation of certain statements put forth in the tracts of the Rev. Mr. Spurrell, Miss Campbell, and others. With an appendix. Second edition. William R. B. Sellon. January 1852' (ebook available on Google Play).

Henry was supposed to have been born in Paris (British Embassy), Charles and others in Belgium, Charlotte in Prussia, which adds more difficulty to finding their dates of birth.

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #5 on: Friday 22 March 24 12:40 GMT (UK) »
What are you actually looking for now?

All this information is on your Cipher Mystery page:

https://ciphermysteries.com/2023/11/17/on-the-trail-of-dorothy-robertson

I've replied to you on the other thead.

Precisely because the members of that blog aren't interested and this forum looks to me to be the best place for a lively discussion.

I want to know if Henry Edward Stratford, who lived in Melbourne around 1854 and moved to New South Wales and lived there until his death in 1890 is the son of the 5th  Earl of Aldborough and consequently brother of Charles Alexander Stratford, the grandfather (or great grandfather) of Dorothy Jean Robertson, the wife of Carl Webb (The Somerton Man).

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #6 on: Friday 22 March 24 13:00 GMT (UK) »
Does anyone know how can I access this? (I live in Brazil, btw!)


LONDON METROPOLITAN ARCHIVES
DIOCESE OF GIBRALTAR


CLC/319/C/023/MS20990 Transcript of baptisms 1825-51, marriages
1826-50 and burials 1825-51 at the English
Church, Leghorn [Livorno], Italy.
1 file
Former reference: MS 20990
1825 - 51.

In the book 'The Anglo-Florentines - The British in Tuscany 1814-1860, by Diana and Tony Webb', they say that "no fewer than nine Stratford children of all ages were baptised after his lordship’s death in 1849, one of them on 18 November in that year and eight on a single day, 15 March 1850."

I was wondering if Henry was the son baptised on 18 November 1849.

On second thoughts, he probably was baptised in Florence, Italy.

I've just got some newspaper clippings from St. Arnaud's Historical Society (Victoria, Australia), and one of them is Charles Alexander Stratfords's obituary and another an article commenting on his death, and both state that he was a native of Florence, and aged 58 years at the time of his death, 13 Nov 1892.

That means his date of birth was 1834, which is not consistent with the British newspapers clippings of December 1851 stating that he was 21 years-old, and other sources that say he was born in Belgium.


Offline maddys52

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 23 March 24 00:13 GMT (UK) »
It looks like the documents you are after are "Restricted access: please see staff":
https://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/144/LMA_OPAC/web_detail/REFD+CLC~2F319?SESSIONSEARCH

If you click on the pdf List of This Collection, scrolling down it does contain
"Transcripts of baptisms 1833-65, 1869, 1871-9, 1881-7 and 1899, and of
marriages and burials 1833-65 and 1869 at the British Legation and Holy
Trinity, Florence, Italy."

and:
"Transcript of baptisms 1825-51, marriages
1826-50 and burials 1825-51 at the English
Church, Leghorn [Livorno], Italy."

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 23 March 24 01:21 GMT (UK) »
Thanks maddy, I wish I could 'see staff'! A bit tricky from Brazil!

I have been browsing the baptisms archives of Florence (Firenze, Toscana, Livorno). They have all the records digitised and no sign of the Stratfords.

https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/search-registry/

The odd thing is that all the books about the family have the dates of the baptisms - 18 Nov 1849 for one of the children (probably Henry, the eldest son), and 15 March 1850 for the other 8 children, but no one seems to know their exact names. How's that? How can they know the dates but not the names? Haven't they actually seen the image of the records of they just don't bother?