Author Topic: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)  (Read 2136 times)

Offline maddys52

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 23 March 24 01:31 GMT (UK) »

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 23 March 24 01:34 GMT (UK) »
I wish  ;D I'd have to multiply it by 6.3!

Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 23 March 24 04:23 GMT (UK) »
A copy of the marriage certificate for Henry Edward STRATFORD and Wilhelmina Lyne STRATFORD who married on 18 December 1875 at St. Mary’s, Balmain should give you details of his age, birthplace and parents.

NSW BDM Ref:1267/1876
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au

Also, St Mary's Balmain do hold the original Marriage registers that are held in their own safe at the church.
They are available for viewing on request.

Contact: office@stmarysbalmain.church

https://www.stmarysbalmain.church/_files/ugd/e47f7c_39d7b0dd9b98452095318209e83a71e6.pdf

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 23 March 24 12:51 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Merlin, I might do that in the near future (financial issues), although I'm afraid the official records can't be trusted regarding the 5th Earl of Aldborough's 'illegitimate' offspring.

The excellent book 'The Anglo Florentines - The British in Tuscany (1814-1860)', by Diana and Tony Webb, states that his Lordship had never permitted any of his children to be either baptised or buried (a child's bones were discovered in an attic of his villa at Leghorn when it was raided by the police in 1849).

Charles Alexander Stratford's death certificate states that he died aged 58 on 13 Nov 1892, which gives us the estimated date of birth of 1834.

It also states that he had been in the Australian Colonies for 28 years.

His age in the passenger's list of the Sea Ranger in Nov 1853 is 23, which gives us the estimated date of birth of 1830.

The death certificate also states that he had been living in Victoria for 28 years and that he was born in Belgium.

His death notice and obituary in the St Arnaud Mercury of Saturday, 19 Nov 1892 state that he was a native of Florence, Italy, and that 'he had been a resident of Avon Plains for over a quarter of a century' (this is confirmed by the death certificate), 'and a colonist of 40 years standing,' which should have been in the death certificate 'how long in the Australian Colonies, stating which', but obviously his wife  and the authorised agent who was the informant were unaware of his past life in another Australian Colony.

The obituary also states that 'The deceased gentleman was a native of that famed land of paintings and sculptures, Florence, Italy, and we have good reason to know that to his name were attached titles both honorable and distinctive, which he had every right to, but did not assume.'

His father's name is stated in the death certificate as 'Henry Mason Gerard Stratford', which was the name of his son, but maybe the 5th Earl of Aldborough also liked to be called Henry, who knows, or his wife had no idea of his Lordship's real name.

Same thing goes for Henry Mason Stratford's age.

His death certificate states that he was 75 years old at the time of his death (1911), which gives us 1836 as an estimated date of birth, not consistent with him being the eldest son of his Lordship (as per historical narrative), and not consistent with his stated age(s) on his arrival aboard the Rip Van Winkle in Nov 1852 (21 in one passenger's list and 18 in another).

That's why all the other sources (with no evidence) state that he was born in 1827, and died at the age of 84, probably inferred from his Lordship's date of marriage with Mary Arundell at the British Embassy in Paris (Sep 1926), and that Henry Mason was their eldest son, probably inferred from Arundell's claim that her son 'Henry' was the legitimate 6th Earl of Aldborough, or some other source that I'm yet to find.

(IF her son 'Edward' Stratford was actually called 'Henry Edward', that would explain some of these inconsistencies, which is precisely what I'm trying to establish).

The entry of Henry Edward Stratford's death record has a typo 'STRAHFORD' and also the name on his burial record 'STAFFORD', and his grave is unmarked, no headstone, in a Catholic cemetery (Rookwood), which gives me the impression that his marriage certificate might not say he was the son of the 5th Earl of Aldborough, or give an exact age.

I'll let you know what Henry Edward Stratford's marriage certificate says, when I have the means to buy it, but I'm not holding my breath.

P.S.: email sent to St. Mary's, Balmain. Fingers crossed.


Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 23 March 24 13:42 GMT (UK) »
I have found Mason Gerard Stratford's death record in the digitised archives of the Livorno (Leghorn) parish under the 'CULTO NON CATOLLICO' (non-Catholic worship) entry, but no luck with his children's baptism records (18 Nov 1849 and 15 March 1850).

Is it possible that Mary Arundell has baptised them in a Catholic parish?

These records have only been available with better resolution images in 2023.

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 23 March 24 15:59 GMT (UK) »
In the book 'The Anglo-Florentines - The British in Tuscany 1814-1860', pages 112-113, the authors, Diana and Tony Webb, trancribed the events (published in the Mancherster Guardian, 11 Aug 1841), that took place at the Earl of Aldborough's villa near Florence, between his two sons, a 'younger brother, a lad of 18' and 'his elder brother, a young man of 23'.

The younger brother shoot the older one, who was seriously wounded but didn'd die, and upon being seized by 'several contadini' in a neighbouring vineyard, replied to them 'with great defiance: "No, no thank you, I shall never come to the galleys!", and shot himself.

This younger brother was Gustave Stratford, and he 'was buried on 21 July 1841, having died by his own hand on the 18th.'

The authors just say the life of the wounded brother was still precarious.

So who was the older brother? If he was 23 in July 1841 he would have been born around 1818.   ???

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 23 March 24 16:21 GMT (UK) »
It turns out that his future Lordship had an 'affair' with Mrs. Thomas Newcomen between c. 1808 and 1818, when he went to debtor's prison, and had 'several children' while leaving in London as 'Major and Mrs. Stratford'.

Major Stratford remained in prison for the next 8 years, according to Paul Gorry's book 'Baltinglass Chronicles 1851-2001'.

So the 'older brother' was probably one the children he had with Mrs. Newcomen, as well as Gustave.

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 23 March 24 17:13 GMT (UK) »
According to Matteo Giunti's transcription of the Leghorn non-Catholic civil registers of DEATHS (1818-1865), Mason Gerard had a daughter who died there (unfortunately he didn't transcribe the dates, but I'll search the digitised images), named Gianneta Stratford.

https://leghornmerchants.wordpress.com/acrl/deaths/s/


Offline maddys52

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #17 on: Monday 25 March 24 00:31 GMT (UK) »
There are various reports of the 1841 shooting in UK newspapers, and later various items not convinced of their veracity, although they don't consider bigamy or illegitimacy. Happy to send you copies if you'd like to see the articles rather than just transcriptions.