Author Topic: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)  (Read 2257 times)

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 27 March 24 11:49 GMT (UK) »
Ah yes! Sorry, you're right  ;D

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 27 March 24 16:53 GMT (UK) »
No reply from St. Mary's Church at Balmain, yet.

Reply from the London Metropolitan Archives: they have the Livorno christenings of 1849 and 1850, but the file hasn't been digitised yet. I would have to pay 40 (R$252) to have a medium resolution image via FTP. 

It might not solve my question though, because all the books that mention the Straford children's christenings don't mention their full names or dates of birth, and places of birth vary so much (Paris, Florence, Belgium, Prussia, Livorno), that maybe this information isn't there.

Regarding Henry Edward Stratford's death certificate (NSW BDM) I doubt his real date of birth is there (he wouldn't have a birth certificate if he was Mason Gerard's son) and his parents' names appear as 'unknown' in the main entry.

His marriage certificate might not have this information either, because according to the NSW BDM website

"Many pre-1896 marriages do not have complete information in the Registers. It was not compulsory to record Birthplace, Age or Parents of the parties to the marriage on civil records until 1896. Sometimes this information has been added later by the Registry after referring to the parish register."
 

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 28 March 24 17:03 GMT (UK) »
Another two illegitimate children: Maria and Augustus Stratford.

Transcripts of memorials of deeds, conveyances and wills - Deeds, etc., v. 840 1828

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-GRLG

Offline maddys52

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #30 on: Friday 29 March 24 07:55 GMT (UK) »

His marriage certificate might not have this information either, because according to the NSW BDM website

"Many pre-1896 marriages do not have complete information in the Registers. It was not compulsory to record Birthplace, Age or Parents of the parties to the marriage on civil records until 1896. Sometimes this information has been added later by the Registry after referring to the parish register."

Not necessarily - see this very informative thread started by majm. The church register is probably your best source of info for his marriage.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0


Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #31 on: Friday 29 March 24 11:17 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, maddy, very informative post!

I've already contacted Balmain's St. Mary's Church giving the marriage details, minus the groom's parents' names. If they don't reply I might try those steps (the 'hurdles') although it might prove difficult from this side of the pond. I've already bought some certificates (really expensive due to currency exchange rates) and some have many innacuracies regarding ages, dates, and names.

Fingers crossed they will reply, and if I have to pay a fee I will do it if they say the information is there.

It's interesting that the newspaper notices of their marriage don't mention his family. I wonder if this is a clue that he didn't want his name to be associated with his father, if he was the 5th Earl of Aldborough'son, and his troubles with the Austrian/Italian law back in 1851-2. That is certainly true regarding his brother Charles Alexander (according to his obituary in the St. Arnaud Mercury).

All newspaper notices state the date of the marriage (18 Dec 1875), which is also interesting because the bride's father had died less than 5 months earlier (21 July 1875); the bride's father's name (eldest daughter of the late F. A. Stratford); the Church (St. Mary's); the place (Balmain), the officiating clergy (Rev. Thomas Kennis); and the groom's name (Henry Edward Stratford).

The fact that he was 50 years-old and the bride was only 26 is also interesting. It sounds like the sort of marriage that would be advantageous for both parties, like most marriages amongst members of the peerage.

Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #32 on: Monday 01 April 24 17:23 BST (UK) »
I've found a tree on Ancestry called OUR FAMILY HISTORY that have more information on the offspring of Mary Arundel Gerard and Mason Gerard Stratford, but when I try to pay for a month subscription it's not accepting my debit card (I don't have a credit card).

Frustrating! Does anybody know why Ancestry isn't accepting a valid debit card?

Anyway, it shows a son or daughter born in 1832 in Italy who died in NSW, Australia. I suppose this is (Henry) Edward Stratford, because the other 2 sons (Henry Mason and Charles Alexander) have died in Victoria.

The other children listed died in:

...... (born Gloucestershire)  - ???

Gloucestershire (born Middlesex) - ???

Surrey (born in Cuneo, Piemonte Italy) - I think it's Charlotte Florence.

Livorno (born in Livorno, Italy) - I think it's Jane.

Lancashire (born in Liege, Belgium, 1846) - I think this must be wrong.

London (born in Livorno, Italy) - I think it's Mary.

Surrey (born in Trier-Saarburg, Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany) - I'm certain it's Georgina.

Victoria, Australia (b. 1830) - I'm certain it's Charles Alexander.



And a very intriguing one:

Choteau, Montana (born in Collier, Florida, USA) -  ???

(I know family trees are not to be trusted...)

If the son who was born in 1832 and died in NSW is not Henry Edward Stratford (who was older, according to other sources), I can't find any Stratford (and mispellings) on the NSW BDM death registers database that could be him, unless he died just after he arrived in NSW, i.e. between Dec 1852 and 1856.

Interestingly, there's a Henry Stafford who died at sea in 1857, and a Henry E. Stafford who died at Woollahra in 1890, father Charles and Mother Mary G.



Offline maddys52

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 02 April 24 03:44 BST (UK) »
Looking at the public tree for OUR FAMILY HISTORY, I can see that they have no sources attached to the death of Edward STRATFORD in Sydney,NSW. The only source attached to his 1832 birth in Italy is the passenger list for an Edward STRATFORD aged 21 in 1852 on the Rip Van Winkle.


Offline maddys52

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 02 April 24 03:51 BST (UK) »

And a very intriguing one:

Choteau, Montana (born in Collier, Florida, USA) -  ???



I can't see any deaths in Montana for a child of Mason Gerard STRATFORD on the family tree of OUR FAMILY HISTORY.  :-\

They have:
Henry Mason - death Hawtorn, Vic
Charles Alexander - death Avon Plains, Vic
Edward - death Sydney, NSW
Georgina - death Chertsey, Surrey
Jane - death Leghorn, Italy
Byron - death Tunis Bay
Charlotte - death London
Mary - death Chertsey
Olivia - death Paddington


Offline PatLac

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Re: Henry Edward Stratford, New South Wales (d. 1890)
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 02 April 24 16:03 BST (UK) »
Thanks, maddy, I thought as much regarding the 1832 date of death.

I really appreciate your help  :)

I took a snapshot of the basic information on that family tree and it definetely had the USA member.

https://imgur.com/a/vbaqpX8

Maybe it's good that Ancestry is not accepting my payment  ;D

Can you see when the info for Edward has been added? Or is this not possible?

Regarding their ages, it seems that they didn't know exactly when they were born (thanks to Mason Gerard's eccentricities), because Olivia's age estimated from the census information is very confusing - she was 40 in 1881, 45 in 1891, 70 in 1911, and 88 in 1915, when she died.  ???