James Sansum Chandler, Windsor NSW, d.1871

[judb]

Just trying to narrow down possible emigration dates.

Are his children all born in Australia and, if so, what is the earliest, please.  I note that he married in NSW 1859, giving his marital status as 'widower' so do you have any information re a previous wife?

Seems to me that the convict transportation already mentioned may be him.

Judith

[baytree1970]

His children were all born in Windsor in the years immediately after his marriage. I can find no record of him prior to his marriage in 1859.

I have been through the convict records and the James Chandler I have in mind was convicted in 1835 at Gloucester and sentenced to transportation for life. He arrived in Tasmania on the ship 'Layton' and served out his sentence in Hobart, eventually receiving a conditional pardon in 1849. He married Margaret Ferguson in Tasmania in 1849. In 1852 he appears on a passenger ship bound for Melbourne from Launceston (it mentions the convict ship he arrived on so it's certainly him) .. so he definitely made it to the mainland. I cannot find any other record for him or his wife in Tasmania. So that's a period of 7 years unaccounted for.

His age is consistently reported giving a year of birth of c.1813/4. Unfortunately the baptism register in question (if he was indeed son of Enoch and Lois Chandler) has major gaps in it, including for this period.

An index entry for his New South Wales death certificate gives his father's name as 'James' but I can't afford to purchase the full certificate. It's puzzling though - I believe James's father was probably Enoch Chandler (1780-c.1835) - his wife Lois's maiden name was Sansum and Enoch used Sansum as the middle name of another son, Charles Frederick Sansum Chandler. Also I arrived at this family because there is a Y-DNA match between my own Chandler line and a descendant of Enoch via his son Isaac, and also a match to a descendant of the James Sansum Chandler in question, so they're definitely connected. So unless there was another Sansum / Chandler marriage in Nailsworth at the same time also connected to Enoch's family, Enoch looks like the likely father. Also Enoch was a carpenter and James Samsun Chandler in Tasmania was also noted to be a carpenter on his marriage.

There are some other James Chandlers who, in my opinion, should not be confused with this man. James Chandler convicted in 1836 in Bristol and transported to NSW on the ship 'John', and James Chandler from Tenterfield, NSW, who shot himself in 1871, a few months before 'our' James Chandler died.

[sparrett]

An index entry for his New South Wales death certificate gives his father's name as 'James' but I can't afford to purchase the full certificate.

Hi baytree,

It is understandable that purchasing the death certificate is not a possibility for you, but I wanted to make sure that you were aware of the transcription service provided in connection with NSW BMD records. Cost is about $20. Not cheap , but less than the original ' real' certificate.

Scroll almost to the end of the page to see “hire a transcription agent”.
The website of the individual agent you select will give you the "how to"....
https://www.nsw.gov.au/family-and-relationships/family-history-search/search-guide


In addition to the list of information you may expect to see (below), often you will also find how many years in the colony.
Name
Date
Death place
Age
Occupation
Cause of death
Parents' names
Spouse names
Marriage details
Chns names
No of chn
Birthplace



The knowledge of the informant may be excellent,  limited or faulty!

Just thought I would pass this on.

Sue

[Neale1961]

I have been through the convict records and the James Chandler I have in mind was convicted in 1835 at Gloucester and sentenced to transportation for life. He arrived in Tasmania on the ship 'Layton' and served out his sentence in Hobart, eventually receiving a conditional pardon in 1849. He married Margaret Ferguson in Tasmania in 1849. In 1852 he appears on a passenger ship bound for Melbourne from Launceston (it mentions the convict ship he arrived on so it's certainly him) .. so he definitely made it to the mainland. I cannot find any other record for him or his wife in Tasmania. So that's a period of 7 years unaccounted for.

Looks like a very good match to me ....
James Chandler convict per Layton 1835
Place of origin Minchinhampton, Gloucestershire.
Year of birth consistent to 1813/ 1814
Life sentence but conditional pardon July 1847 within the limits of the Australian colonies and New Zealand
Again Conditional pardon Jan 1849
Occupation was a carpenter on marriage to Margaret Ferguson in 1849 Tasmania

 21 Feb 1852 departure on “Gem” to Melbourne
Potentially returned to Tasmania from Melbourne July 1852 on the schooner “Go-a Head”, and then departed on “William Melville” in Sept 1852 for Melbourne.

He probably was headed for the goldfields.
Second marriage to Esther in 1859 he was a widower and a carpenter.

6 or 7 years (unaccounted for) is not so long, during which he was not in trouble with the law, and his 1st wife died.

As his sister Sarah had emigrated to NSW, this may have induced him to head there from Victoria.

[baytree1970]

It is understandable that purchasing the death certificate is not a possibility for you, but I wanted to make sure that you were aware of the transcription service provided in connection with NSW BMD records. Cost is about $20. Not cheap , but less than the original ' real' certificate.

Thanks Sue, I was unaware. Good to know!

[baytree1970]

Looks like a very good match to me ....

Thanks, good to get a second opinion. I'll look into the sister, I'd missed that, a useful new lead.

[Neale1961]

. I'll look into the sister, I'd missed that, a useful new lead.

Sarah Chandler was born 14 May 1810 Minchinhampton, and baptised 28 July 1811 at Forest Green Independent chapel in Nailsworth – daughter of Enoch and Lois Chandler.

On 24 Aug 1834 Sarah Chandler married William Young in Minchinhampton

In the 1841 census, they are in Minchinhampton, living next door to the eldest sibling Isaac Chandler (36, Carpenter) and his family.
•   William Young 25 Mason
•   Sarah Young 25
•   Enoch Young 2


The family arrived NSW on “Castle Eden” in October 1848
•   William Young, 34, Quarryman, born Horsley Gloucestershire; can read and write, Religion – Independent; Parents William & Alice both dead; sister Alice living in Sydney.
•   Sarah Young 36 cloth picker born Minchinhampton Gloucestershire. Religion – Independent; can read. Parents Enoch and Lois Chandler both dead.
•   Enoch Wm Young 9 born Rocknep Hill Gloucestershire, can read.
•   Sarah A Young 6 born Watledge, can read
•   Martha A Young born on voyage

[Note that Sarah was a cloth picker, and James Chandler on the convict appropriation list was recorded as a cloth dresser.]

The family lived in Norwood, Sydney. William died in 1880 & Sarah died 25 May 1891 and both are buried in Rookwood cemetery Sydney.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/181865786/sarah-young


ADDED -  I think it is worth noting that James' father, Enoch Chandler was a carpenter, and also had some criminal convictions for theft and had spent time in prison in the 1820s - 1830s.

--------------------------------
Posting this in case it is of use ….
There is a Mr and Mrs Chandler (English) with a 1 yr old son and a baby girl departing Hobart and arriving in Geelong in April 1854 on board the ship “Cape Horn” in steerage. They were listed as ‘gold seekers’.  (Ages a little off)

[baytree1970]

Thanks, that's great. Textile production was the main industry in and around Stroud so it would make sense that they were cloth workers. But yes, Enoch was a carpenter so that also fits. There's a lot of very good circumstancial evidence, just needs a smoking gun.

What I find curious is that the convict records for James who arrived on the Layton consistenly report that he was of bad character, and he certainly was a repeat offender. He'd only recently been released from prison when he was arrested again in 1835 and transported. He continued to get into trouble in Tasmania, but he must have mended his ways because he got his pardon and then there's no record I can find of him getting into further trouble after that. You get the impression that in Windsor he was a respectable member of the community... if indeed it's the same man.

[Neale1961]

Marriage, a good wife and the responsibility of children often have a remarkable effect on a previously wayward young man. 

Have you compared James’ physical description from convict records with that of his father from his prison record?