Author Topic: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England  (Read 496 times)

Offline angelaus

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Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« on: Tuesday 26 March 24 20:32 GMT (UK) »
I have made an attempt to transcribe the first half of an inventory or account of goods. A few weeks ago I asked for help with a document that I said was Latin but turned out to be French, this one is Latin. 

The document is not in the best of shape.  If anyone could fill in any of the blanks or correct any of my mistakes, I'd appreciate it.  This is only my second attempt ever, so please don't laugh too hard at me!   I am attaching top half of the document in three parts and adding a link to the whole document.  The inventory of Robert Gyene in the county of Somerset.  It seems to mainly include just totals from each place but some have livestock values.  I can't make out all of the place names writing in the left margin but what is odd is some of them don't match the place names from his IPM. Maybe they are lands attached to the various manors he held.
Thanks in advance!
Angela

1 Et indcatis de bon a cattall  Robti Gyen  in  com' Som'a' et que pt ____
2 __ de b_ de __ __  Johen __ Johes R__, Simon de ___  [C or W?]___ Johen ____ Johen p__s___
3 Johen spicer [or spencer] Johen Gilbard[?] De ___ Robert le Galeys Robero le Boohyde, Peter _y_ose ?, __ ___
4 p'sent  qd John de Iford prior Bath en compito que haec dicsa bona & cat Robert Gyen vt m aure & argent vasa alias
5 __ __ a_ valord [velente ?] vi mill librs.
6 p'sent  qd William de Iford  hec de bona et idem Robert  dccc libr vt [Videlicet] in aure argeant vasa aryes
7 ___ a s___ boni et catall [goods and chattels]
8 itm p'sent de [Robino?] le  clerk de eston _  de _ bon pta Rob D one ? P [R?] li _  _ m t_ appa
9 rata p'sent lx sol xii boves et suma tauru fuit X li et alia bona et catall ad val xi libr

possibly Keynesham written in left margin beside line 10

10 __ est  p jur'd [jurisdiction?] de Keynesham qd John Pount hec dicsa boni et catalla Robert Gyen ad  Valord c libr

Bedminster [written in margin]

11__ p'sent est pd Robino le ___  hec de bon  Robert Gyen vidlt v[or & ?] boves p__ v valord _ __ __
12 rata pret xi s __ __  __________________________viii de d_ signos prκt X sol _ olla ___
13 __ x [ l or d ?]  __ pt __ _____ pt xviii l

Iford written in left margin beside line 14

14 itm  prest est  qd William de Iford reus[?] apud G or C__la_ postqm bona et Catella Robert Gyen forfeited[?] fuerit et sex

Frome written in left margin beside line 15

15 equos pendirest ad aur a argeant ad indentris & valord q[ua]dringentos[?] [quadringentos=400]  Libr bona et catalla Robert Gyen __
16 imputatio[?] __ __  ab eodem  lo__  videlicet London abduxit per mandatum dominus regi [was taken away by the order or mandate of the king ?].
17 pres' eft qd John de Iforde prior de Bath  hec de bona et catalla et valord c li.
18 qa__  priorie  de Bathe John de Jobb__ John Coker, John ___ Henry a fryer [?], John de A__
19 qa__ Johen D__ Peter Hawkyn, Johen chamberlayn

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/JUST1/Just1no1451/aJUST1no1451fronts/IMG_7592.htm

Offline angelaus

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Re: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 26 March 24 20:32 GMT (UK) »
second part

Offline angelaus

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Re: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 26 March 24 20:33 GMT (UK) »
3rd part

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 27 March 24 18:07 GMT (UK) »
A few fragments from the first section.

In line 1 the second word may be:  iud(i)catis*

In line 6:

...q(uo)d Will(elmu)s de Iforde h(ab)et de bon(is) eiusdem Rob(er)ti DCCC lib(ra)ri ut in auro argent(o) [vas' - don't know this word] aureis...

A few extra names in line 3:

...Joh(ann)es Spencer Joh(ann)es [D?] Gilb(er)tus de [S?] Rog(er)us le Waleys Rob(er)tus le [Gothard?] Joh(ann)es [Ly?]...

EDIT:

*  Suggested transcript corrected to show contraction.


Offline horselydown86

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Re: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 27 March 24 18:18 GMT (UK) »
I can't make out all of the place names writing in the left margin but what is odd is some of them don't match the place names from his IPM.

In simple terms, IPMs only list lands held in chief from the monarch.  It is to be expected that a substantial landholder will have a shorter list in their IPM than in their will or inventory.

Offline angelaus

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Re: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 27 March 24 18:30 GMT (UK) »
I can't make out all of the place names writing in the left margin but what is odd is some of them don't match the place names from his IPM.

In simple terms, IPMs only list lands held in chief from the monarch.  It is to be expected that a substantial landholder will have a shorter list in their IPM than in their will or inventory.

Thank you for your help!  I appreciate it. I am trying to learn, so I can transcribe medieval Latin documents but it is not something one can learn overnight!

He didn't hold any lands of the king. His IPM and some other documents should be full lists, as the king confiscated all of his belongings, so there were several inquisitions and he died during that time. 

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 27 March 24 20:12 GMT (UK) »
It's not an inventory, but part of a judicial inquiry, heard in court.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4294435
Reference:   JUST 1/1451
Description: General oyer and terminer roll, inquiry into felonies and trespasses in Gloucestershire and Somerset 1353, including jury calendars
Note: Rots 6
Date: 27 Edw III

It's headed something like 'Concerning judgements about the goods and chattels of Robert Gyen that relate to the King.'

Afraid I can't tackle it now, but I might have time tomorrow.

Offline angelaus

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Re: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 28 March 24 12:57 GMT (UK) »
It's not an inventory, but part of a judicial inquiry, heard in court.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4294435
Reference:   JUST 1/1451
Description: General oyer and terminer roll, inquiry into felonies and trespasses in Gloucestershire and Somerset 1353, including jury calendars
Note: Rots 6
Date: 27 Edw III


It's headed something like 'Concerning judgements about the goods and chattels of Robert Gyen that relate to the King.'

Afraid I can't tackle it now, but I might have time tomorrow.

Thank you.   I knew inventory wasn't quite the word I was looking for but since the orders from the king in 1352 were to go survey Robert's estates in Somerset and Gloucester (CPR 1350-1354 pages 232 , 279), I thought inventory was a suitable word. There are separate inventories of the silver, gold, and other valuables, including certificates of statue merchant, and other things found in August of 1352 and taken to London at that time (as was ordered), and his belongings not taken to London were ordered to be sold.  I am trying to understand why there would be this amount of goods to be surveyed (or inventoried) in 1353.  The names of the commissioners on this document are the same as on the 1352 documents. (https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Antient_Kalendars_and_Inventories_of/gmaImMVYCeUC?hl=en&gbpv=1  beginning on page 209 and https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4516225.) I have obtained copies of those from the archives, as well as most documents concerning Robert Gyene.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Latin inventory 1352 Somerset England
« Reply #8 on: Friday 29 March 24 10:29 GMT (UK) »
There are so many gaps in these pieces, partly due to poor copy, that it seems hardly worth posting.

Part 1

[marginated] Som(er)s(eta)

1  De indicatis de bon(is) et catall(is) Roberti Gyen in Com(itatu) Som(er)s(etie) que Regi p(er)tinent

2  Jur(atores) […] de […] vid(e)li(cet) Joh(ann)es […] Joh(ann)es Rodyk[?] Simon de Wytacomb’[?] Joh(ann)es Walbr[…]nd Johannes Ped[…]s[…] de

3  Joh(annes) Spencer Joh(ann)es Dur[…] Gilb(er)tus de S[…] Rog(er)us le Waleys Rob(er)tus le Gotharde Joh(ann)es Ly[…]est et Joh(ann)es Clem[…] [qui?]

4  p(re)sent(ant) q(uo)d Joh(ann)es de Iforde Prior Bathon(ie) occipit & h(ab)et div(er)sa bona et cat(alla) Rob(er)ti Gyen ut in auro et argent(o) et ali[a]

5  bon(a) & cat(alla) ad valen(ciam) vj mill(ia) libr(arum)


=====

Declaration of the goods and chattels of Robert Gyen in the county of Somerset which belong to the King

The jurors for the […] namely: John […] John Rodyk[?], Simon de Wytacomb[?], John Walbr[…]nd, John Ped[…], John Spencer, John Dur[…], Gilbert de S[…], Roger le Waleys, Robert le Gotharde, John Ly[…] and John Cle[…], who[?] present that John de Iforde, Prior of Bath, has laid hold of and is holding various goods and chattels of Robert Gyen in gold and silver, and other goods and chattels, to the value of £6000.