Author Topic: Dead Child included in 1911 Census  (Read 2296 times)

Offline Elastik

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #18 on: Friday 29 March 24 01:25 GMT (UK) »
The GRO has records of a child called "Sarah Stephens" being born twice to her mother Ellen Harriet Stephens, eleven years apart.

First record -    STEPHENS, SARAH       TOLPUTT 
GRO Reference: 1897  M Quarter in HARTLEPOOL  Volume 10A  Page 144

Second record -    STEPHENS, SARAH       TOLPUTT 
GRO Reference: 1908  S Quarter in HARTLEPOOL  Volume 10A  Page 182 
Occasional Copy: A

I do not understand how this is possible. What does the phrase "Occasional Copy: A" mean? Thanks for any help.

Online heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 40,868
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #19 on: Friday 29 March 24 06:37 GMT (UK) »
Here is a Rootschat thread with an explanation. By coincidence you posted the query re another birth.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=862475.0

You can purchase a digital copy for £2.50 which would hopefully explain it.

Have you found a birth record for Hannah, 2 years, in 1911?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Tickettyboo

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,837
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #20 on: Friday 29 March 24 10:38 GMT (UK) »
For census return prior to 1911, though a form was completed by the householder they have not survived, what we see if the enumerators books where the info from the original forms were collated for each ED.
The 1911 is the first census where the original forms were retained so we see what the householder (or whoever completed the form) wrote. Sometimes people misunderstood the instruction and listed names of all the children they had living or deceased though gave correct info in the numbers of children born/alive/died columns.

Way back when we first had access to the 1911 census I was delighted to find one of these forms as at the time we had no access to an index with MMN prior to 1911 so I had no chance of knowing this child had existed.
The couple had 12 children, 11 living and 1 had died. The Dad listed all 12 names and the final entry reads (though the enumerator later put a line through it, its still readable)
Paul Walsh, age 1 day, occupation Dead.

Boo




Online heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 40,868
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #21 on: Friday 29 March 24 11:34 GMT (UK) »
I assume that the 1911 census summary books were completed after the census information was gathered.
21 Watt Street shows ‘Mrs Stephens’ as the occupier and 2 males and 6 females in the house. This would exclude Frederick J snr.
As I wrote earlier, he may have completed the form but was then absent or his wife completed it and included him.
Is she referred to as ‘Hellen’ anywhere else?
Did she sign her marriage certificate?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Elastik

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #22 on: Friday 29 March 24 14:08 GMT (UK) »
...Have you found a birth record for Hannah, 2 years, in 1911?...
No. So perhaps after the sad death of Sarah in 1901 the parents named another girl Sarah which corresponds to the registration for Sarah in 1908. I'll buy the certificate.

Offline Elastik

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #23 on: Friday 29 March 24 14:30 GMT (UK) »
It looks as though Frederick James and Charles Henry are siblings.
1881 4908 /65/39

Frederick H and Hannah Stephens with several children including Frederick and Charles.
They have a sister, Sarah, too.
Apart from the sister Sarah there is also a sister Hilda. I was hoping that this might be my target "Hilda Stephens" that my primary source remembered vaguely & I was looking for. He remembered her as an Aunt but this Hilda would be a Great Aunt, however, as noted, she lived in the North, doesn't appear to have lived in London. She also died in 1979 whereas my target is supposed to have died in the early 50s. So this isn't her & I'll have to keep looking.

Offline Milliepede

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,283
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #24 on: Friday 29 March 24 14:54 GMT (UK) »
Quote
No. So perhaps after the sad death of Sarah in 1901 the parents named another girl Sarah which corresponds to the registration for Sarah in 1908. I'll buy the certificate.

It was quite common to name another child after one who had passed away. 
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline Milliepede

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,283
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #25 on: Friday 29 March 24 15:04 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Have you found a birth record for Hannah, 2 years, in 1911?

Free BMD has a birth for Hannah Stephens in Hartlepool Sep 1908 but I can't find her on GRO to check mothers name. 
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline Elastik

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Dead Child included in 1911 Census
« Reply #26 on: Friday 29 March 24 15:28 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Have you found a birth record for Hannah, 2 years, in 1911?

Free BMD has a birth for Hannah Stephens in Hartlepool Sep 1908 but I can't find her on GRO to check mothers name.
I notice that after the family moves to Bristol 1917/18 they are still referring to Hannah(Sarah?) as "Hannah" when they complete the 1921 Census at 34 Priory Road, Shirehampton, but as you say, the GRO doesn't have that birth registration. I have ordered the birth cert for -

Second record -    STEPHENS, SARAH       TOLPUTT
GRO Reference: 1908  S Quarter in HARTLEPOOL  Volume 10A  Page 182
Occasional Copy: A

There was no image file so the .pdf will be a few days.