Author Topic: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons  (Read 1017 times)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 03 April 24 21:01 BST (UK) »
I think the Bridget born 1886 died 1887 is the right family.

This is what I have so far-
Edward Lyons m.(1868) Mary Curtis & had 3? children-
1. Catherine Mary Lyons (1869)- only one daughter registered in 1869. I think the confusion over a 2nd unnamed daughter comes from 2 entries in difficult to read baptismal register
2. William Edward Lyons (1871-1873?)
3. Edward Lyons (1874)- this one interesting because birth gives mother as Mary formerly Callaghan but baptism shows mother as Mary Curtis
Edward Lyons m.(1876) Elizabeth Burns/Byrne (d.1893)
4. Luke Lyons (1877-1879)
5. Elizabeth Lyons (1878)
6. Luke Lyons (1879-d.y.?)
7. Margaret Lyons (1880)
8. Edward Patrick Lyons (1884)
9. Bridget Lyons (1886-1887)
10. Josephine Lyons (1888-aft.1920)
11. Luke Lyons (1890)
12. Bridget Lyons (1890)
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 03 April 24 22:34 BST (UK) »
The 1868 marriage of Edward and Mary gives his residence as Carlow but I think that's possibly where he was living/working at the time and may have been from Dublin.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1881-1904_ma_0157
Carlow is in the column entitled "Eorum Residentia" (their residences or residency)
https://search.findmypast.com/search-world-records/ireland-roman-catholic-parish-marriages
Being a stonemason/stonecutter it's possible Edward was working outside Dublin.

I did some searching in Dublin Workhouse registers on Family Search and can't find any of the children besides Josephine. From the 1895 entry it looks as though she stayed there until at least 1903. That why I think this is her-
Possibility in 1901- J.L., age 12, R.C., born Dublin, lame. At South Dublin Workhouse, James St.

Is really annoying we haven't found a death for Edward Lyons (after 1893 because he was alive when wife Elizabeth died). The surviving children weren't that old so I wonder if they were looked after by relatives for a bit and only Josephine went to the Workhouse because she was disabled.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Tees

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 04 April 24 16:09 BST (UK) »
Hi aghadowey,

Thank you for finding many records. I have them from my research but your findings confirmed that I was/am on the right track. Yes, you are correct Edward stated he was from Carlow--good point that it being a workplace and that he could have been from Dublin due to his being stonecutter/stone mason.

Sinann found that link on Josephine but with your help, I finally understand why she was in the Registers. Lame, poor her. I do not know there was another entry on her.  Yet, she was a witness to her sister Bridget's marriage.

Indeed, I am annoyed that I couldn't find him in any death entry that fits him with an exception for 1917 entry but it shows him being married and his widow was Catherine.

Can the boarder be a relative and a boarder at the same time? I found my Bridget and Luke in Celbridge over in Kildare. Make me wondering where are other siblings?

I will work on your list of siblings. That makes a lot easier for me to track them. New sibling Margaret was not known to me until now.

Another thing is that I noticed that in workhouse or hospital, details might be vague at the best unless someone insisted that particulars to be recorded OR a person doing entries are good with details. Too often, they would not be specific with the occupations or wife's name, etc... if one is a stone cutter or stone mason, he will be recorded as a labourer which does not help with narrowing down which Edward is mine.

Very rarely, a relative would be buried with other relatives which would be a big help! I found my relatives that way. :)

Edward Patrick was in 1901 census or was it in 1911 with his uncle Thomas and aunt Burns. This couple fell off the cliff after 1911. I have no idea where they went. His aunt's name is very unique--Dorinda which should make it easy to spot her and her husband, right?  Nope!

If we have 1921 census, that would be tremendous help. I think this census was destroyed in the fire? We already are passing 100 year mark now.

Will follow up later on as I need to get ready for my meeting in the afternoon. My thinking here is that we could try looking up someone's family trees to see if they have these people in them?
Seeing that I have twin Bridget and Luke and their spouses plus two children each, maybe there is a tree on them.

One big mystery here is where was my Eliza Lyons buried? She was not at Glasvensin? I know she is Roman Catholic but was raised in COI family. I have no idea where they took her to be buried in. That will helps us to clue in where and maybe we can find Edward Lyons?  Ummm....

Food for thoughts! :)

Will be back with any findings at my end later on.

Thank you again for your help!








Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 04 April 24 17:07 BST (UK) »

If we have 1921 census, that would be tremendous help. I think this census was destroyed in the fire? We already are passing 100 year mark now.


No census was taken in 1921, due to political unrest as a result of the War of Independence and Civil War, but the work of taking census resumed in 1926.

All census returns from 1926 onwards are closed to the public for 100 years in accordance with section 35 of the Statistics Act, 1993.

See
https://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy/1901-1911-population/#:~:text=No%20census%20was%20taken%20in,of%20the%20Statistics%20Act%2C%201993.


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 04 April 24 20:10 BST (UK) »
In no particular order-

Edward Patrick Lyons was with aunt & uncle in 1901 but not with them in 1911-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Redmond_s_Hill/1343763/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/South_City/Fownes_St__Upper/59917/ (his occupation is Paper Hanger not Paper Kanger as on N.A. site & Family Search)

Possibly Thomas Burns' wife Dorenda? died 1940, buried Mount Jerome-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HPX7-6RT2
Irish Genealogy transcribed as Doranda but it is her- widow (not married) and informant was Josephine Lyons! Dorenda died 12 York St. and Josephine's address 2 York St. but perhaps one is incorrect and she also lived with her aunt and uncle.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04726/4263647.pdf

Yes, in census returns relatives are not always listed as such. My grandfather's aunt listed her nephew as visitor and I came across a stepchild listed as boarder or lodger once.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Tees

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #23 on: Friday 05 April 24 20:32 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Kiltaglassan, for refreshing my memory about 1921 Irish Census. Indeed, Civil War “ruined” it for us, the genealogists.

Aghadowey,

Brilliant findings!

Will have to sign into Family Search. To see the burial information.

I also found Thomas’s death entry. To my surprise, it was his brother who reported his death and he was down as a single, not married!?!? Now I know another brother my great great gran has.

Think they might have “separated”?

I do have them in Irish Censuses. Thanks for confirming my findings!

This weekend I will look up on the family trees to see if anyone has them in their trees.

Thank you for explaining about the relationships on the censuses. Now I know.

Will post later on with any findings I can find.

Kind regards,

Tees







Offline aghadowey

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #24 on: Friday 05 April 24 20:37 BST (UK) »
Think today's research will eliminate Edward Lyons (d.1917) who married Catherine (Goode) O'Connor.

Edward Lyons (c1860-14 Feb.1917 at 40 Jervis St.) m.(23 June 1891) Catherine Coyle (d.1905); m.(30 Jan.1911) Catherine (Goode) O’Connor (c1874)
1892- 10 Upper Major St., labourer; 1893- 188 Church Rd.; 1897- 9 Irvine Ter., labourer; 1900/1904- 7 Emily Pl., labourer; 1911- 16 Oriel St. Upper, carter; 1911- Seville Pl.; 1917- 40 Jervis St.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10668/5887452.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_Dock/Emily_Place/1274910/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05580/4567316.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09938/5613235.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Seville_Place/18992/ (married 9 years, 4 ch./3 living)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05224/4445745.pdf
1. Catherine Lyons (2 Jan.1892 at 10 Upper Mayor St.-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02359/1881292.pdf (mother- Catherine Coyle)
2. Christopher Lyons (10 Dec.1893 at 188 Church Rd.) m.(May 1917) Christina Cummins- family
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02273/1853832.pdf (mother- Catherine Coyle)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09753/5539520.pdf 
1918- 7 Moreland Pl. Talbot St., soldier; 1920- 7 Moreland Pl., carter; 1922/1923- 7 Moreland Pl., (1922- sailor, 1923-labourer)
3. John Lyons (19 Nov.1895 at 22 Jane Pl.-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02184/1826552.pdf (mother- Catherine Coyle)
? https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09761/5542872.pdf
4. Christina Lyons (1 Dec.1897 at 9 Irvine Ter.) m.(21 Aug.1921)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02096/1798748.pdf (mother- Catherine Coyle)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1921/09242/5345025.pdf (father- Edward Lyons, stonecutter)
5. Mary Margaret Lyons (11 Apr.1900 at 7 Emily Pl.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01997/1768170.pdf
6. Patrick Joseph Lyons (27 June 1902 at 7 Emily Pl.-aft.1911) Thomas Burke
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01901/1737969.pdf (mother- Catherine Coyle)
? https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1936/08914/5224077.pdf
? https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1943/08774/5171366.pdf
7. Edward Joseph Lyons (6 May 1904 at 7 Emily Pl.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01828/1714500.pdf (mother- Catherine Coyle)
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #25 on: Friday 05 April 24 20:43 BST (UK) »
Only twice in all those records can I see Edward Lyons as a stonecutter- his death registration and daughter Christina's marriage- all other records show him as a labourer or carter.
This Edward lived in North Dublin registration district and yours in South Dublin. This one is fairly consistent with his age (too young to be yours) and married Catherine Coyle before your Edward's wife Elizabeth died in 1893.

Now, the remaining mysteries-
1. Death for your Edward Lyons (after 1893)
2. Burial place(s) for Edward & Elizabeth (is she buried in Mount Jerome like Dorenda Burns? is Edward also buried there? where are the children who died you buried?
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Tees

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Re: Hello! I found two marriage records on my Lyons
« Reply #26 on: Friday 05 April 24 22:15 BST (UK) »
Hello Aghadowey,

Many, many thanks for discounting the death entry I found on Edward Lyons. Happy we can safely ignore it.

Yes! You read my mind! Where were their deceased children buried?

If twin Lyons stated their father without mentioning that he is deceased, does that mean he is alive?

I found Josephine Lyons died in 1953 in the same cemetery as Dorinda Burns.

I will look at her husband to see if he is buried there or not.

Wondering if this cemetery has burial indexes like Glavensin does?

I will Google that and let you know.