Author Topic: Where to look for those who are English but the child possibly born in France.  (Read 1994 times)

Offline Miggs191

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Ashton,
Louisa gives her place of birth as Covent Garden. I’ve read christening documents until I’ve fallen asleep and then looked again at them !
Also checked Wiltshire.
My Aunt was suspicious that Louisa was the illegitimate child of an Elizabeth Maslin but I don’t know how she thought that….thinking out of the box I guess.
I’ve searched Wiltshire records and did wonder about Urchfont but no other link.
Louisa Elizabeth’s husband John Perry inherited a huge amount of money,property and land in the Devizes area. On his death ,six months later, his only legitimate child Mary Sarah Sissons Perry inherited.Louisa then lives with married daughter. Y 1895 all the money,land,shares ,property had gone. There is even a letter to the solicitor saying sell the silver candlesticks as we can’t support our six boys. Her husband John Biggs Banks was an estate manager and they lived in a large Tudor house outside Newbury. They moved to Enfield( now in London) as Great grandfather John Biggs Bank’s managed to get a job as a store man in the Royal Small Arms Factory where the Enfield Rifle was made.
I have the detailed records of Louisa’s life in the lunatic asylum. It’s talks of an unpleasant woman mumbling about being rich. It’s so very hard to know that my great great grandmother was being treated like this. She had been rich and had single handed lay brought up her daughter having my great grandmother educated in French,pianoforte,a little arithmetic,dance and Geography. They had to bring red flannel petticoats to wear and a silver spoon !
I have had huge amounts of help over the years on this site for which I am so grateful.
My late Dad and Aunt called me their custodian not the owner of this work and it must be passed on to the next generation.
I know everyone thinks their own family is wonderful but I’ve been told by many I should try to write this as a book.There are so many unusual incidents that it would make a wonderful tv drama.
And I haven’t even mentioned the part of this family that went to the USA to San Francisco around 1868 ! Or another branch who were Welsh and went to Philadelphia around 1871 !
Or the fact I could never understand why great uncles all survived WW11….They lived in or near Ordnance Road Enfield Wash and so all had protected jobs as they worked making armaments. They would not be called up to fight though there were Zeppelins overhead !Had they remained in Berkshire or their parents had not lost the wealth ,they would have all been called up to the Wiltshire/ Berkshire Regiments and probably lost their lives.
Thank you for putting up with my genealogical rants but it’s all so very important to me. The choices and efforts these people made make me who I am now.

Offline Miggs191

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Carole W , sadly the Louisa Elizabeth/ Charlotte is a transcription error. Thank you for trying to help.

Offline Miggs191

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Lizzie L,
I’ve posted many bits of the story. I have a whole study floor to ceiling with research files.
It’s obsessive ! I have to put it back and return later. Louisa Elizabeth Maslin’s birth is the one huge brick wall !
I know an unbelievable amount about her life due to solicitors documents and hand written personal letters lodged in the Chippenham Records Office but can not find her parents or her birth.
Due to certain “ inconsistencies” it would not surprise me if her giving 1821 as her date of birth is wrong.
I also think she may not have known where she was born and used Covent Garden as she thought it was acceptable !
I wouldn’t have thought of France except seeing some references when searching for something else. And I do know she went to France as one of her letters to solicitors asking for money refers to being there. I’d assumed it was because she was a milliner but it just might be something else.
Thank you for your help.

Offline LizzieL

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How much do you know about Aunt Sarah?. She seems to have married William Grace early in 1841. The marriage record on Ancestry is a bit of a mess. Spinster altered to widow. Her father is recorded as Richard Mortimer (butcher) and his as Thomas Chandler (labourer). If Sarah was a widow I would expect the name she married in to be different from her father's, but why is William Grace's father a Chandler?
I think he was previously married to Elizabeth Hill and had a daughter Sarah Caroline (maybe other children as well)
Where did her money come from? first husband? father? The marriage record gives her occupation as Lady - does that mean independent means or she actually had a title?
Where does James Chandler fit in? He was witness to Louisa Elizabeth Maslen's marriage and one of the co-executors of Sarah Grace's will.

Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott


Offline Ashtone

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I agree with LizzieL. I feel Aunt Sarah needs a full investigation. Is she Louisa's biological aunt? Or rather someone in an unrelated "guardian" role? Could she be Louisa's birth mother?

What year did Sarah marry William Grace? (Sorry, I don't have an Ancestry sub to view the record).

Offline LizzieL

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Marriage was 23 jan 1841, both were widowed.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline LizzieL

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Sarah says she was born in Upavon in the 1851 census (which she only survived by a short time). From her stated age 59 her year of birth would be about 1792
Her death reg Q2 1851, age given as 60.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Miggs191

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Both your thoughts have been our thoughts about “Aunt Sarah” !
She married young to Richard Chandler in Rotherhithe in Surrey London. There is a Malin on the marriage cert as witness but I haven’t been able to link them yet. I’m guessing siblings or cousins. Richard Chandler seems to be something to do with boat making / and /or grocery that’s seeing legal documents linked to insurance and assuming it’s the right Richard Sissons. He’s travelling to the correct part of Yorkshire and more documents turned up to do with his landholdings. I think he might have been a widower (need to check files) He was older and conveniently dies ! He is listed as a gentleman. Louisa is living with them in Yorkshire. Louisa is specifically listed in the Will to receive money she’s about 13/15. When Richard Sissons dies it’s only a matter of months before they are in Devizes and Aunt Sarah has married Richard Chandler ( a widower I think) he dies with8n a year and she marries William Grace also a widower who has a daughter need to check but maybe a son too )
I began to think Aunt Sarah was killing off the husbands to claim the money !!! There’s a long document in Chippenham giving the exact details of one of the funerals. Black kid leather gloves,silk and satin ,oak and brass. No expense spared.
I don’t know here date of birth or where but it’s possibly in my Aunts note books.Its ten years since she died but I’m still finding bits I’d either forgotten about or hadn’t found. It doesn’t help that lots of her rough notes early on were on very poor quality post war paper.
I am awaiting the conservator at Vhippenham who is willing to give me advice because the collection of research is so vast and this part covers Devizes and surrounding Wiltshire.
Thank you again for your ideas. It so helps to be able to think this through .
Just seen extra posts.
Hadn’t picked up about the Chandler bit. I think this is a different family to the second marriage.
Grace was considered a dreadful man. Solicitors letters between themselves say give him a Guinea to get rid of him,don’t lend him any more money etc.
But the Castle Hotel was a very well known establishment with good reviews back then.
I think Sarah’s money was put into developing the Castle hotel as there are references to the return of the money.

Offline Ashtone

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What is Aunt Sarah's maiden name? Do we know who her parents and siblings are?

How many men did Aunt Sarah marry and when/where? So far you've mentioned:

Richard Sissons   (marriage year and location?)
Richard Chandler  (marriage year and location?)
William Grace   (marriage in 1841)

UPDATED:

Marriage date    03 Dec 1822
Marriage place    Rotherhithe
First name(s)    Richard
Last name    Sissons
Spouse's first name(s)    Sarah
Spouse's last name    Maslin

Marriage date    16 Sep 1835
Marriage place    Saint Pancras
First name(s)    Sarah
Last name    Sissons
Spouse's first name(s)    Richard
Spouse's last name    Chandler

I'm only seeing the transcripts for the 1822 and 1835 marriages. I wonder if the images are online? If so, do they include the witness names?