James Steedman 1823-1912

[Evandarcy]

Hello,
My 4th great grandfathers name is James Steedman born 29th of May 1823 in Edinburgh, Scotland and died 30 November 1912 in Edinburgh, Scotland. He married Marion Ann Campbell 1822-1910 and they had nine children together including my 3rd great grandfather James Steedman 1855-1930.
I would like to find out the parents of my 4th great grandfather. Some sources have listed them as a Henry Steedman 1801-1854 and Mary Anne Patullo 1802-1881 while other sources have listed the father as an Alexander  Steedman and an unlisted mother. How can I found out his parents names?  I cannot find his birth cert and the census does not fo back that far.

[Forfarian]

If you are looking anywhere other than www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk you are wasting your time.

The deaths index there says that James Steedman, aged 83, mother's maiden surname White, died in Edinburgh in 1912. That, if it is accurate, would put his date of birth in 1828/1829. If you get a copy of it it will tell you the full names of both his parents.

There's a baptism of James Steedman, son of Henry Steedman and Mary Pitillo, in Edinburgh in 1823. (There isn't a birth certificate because there was no such thing until the start of civil registration in 1855.)

I see that James Steedman and Marion Campbell were married in 1854, and that they had James in 1855, Peter 1857, David 1860, Alexander 1862, Marion 1865, William Penicuik 1868, Mary 1870 and twins Margaret Campbell and Jane in 1873. The absence of a Henry among their five sons does suggest that perhaps James' father was not Henry, especially if Henry died in 1854, just before their first son was born. James' occuption varies from a stocker in a factory to railway packer to a porter.

In the 1861 census James said he was 30. In 1871 he said he was 38, born Greenside, Midlothian. In 1881 he was 52, and in 1891 he was 61. In 1901 he was 73 and in 1911 he was 82. So the range of birth years from the census, and from his death, is between 1827 and 1833. He's probably the James Steadman in the 1851 census with his grandmother Jean Steadman and Peter Steadman, 24. In 1841 the St*dman family consists of Peter, 67; Jean, 67; Peter, 25; Catherine, 25; Peter, 14; Alexander, 12; and James, 10.

I think the older couple are Peter Steadman and Jean Coalier, whose son Peter, born 1801, would have been recorded as aged 35 in 1841, when adults' ages are rounded down to the nearest 5 years.

Henry Steedman with wife Mary and children Henry, John, William, Thomas and Jane, are in the 1841 census together. In 1851 James Steedman, 26, is head of a household that includes his brothers Henry, John, William and Thomas and their sister Jane. James is a printer's pressman. I have not found him at all in 1861.

So to sum up I am certain that your James is not the son of Henry Steedman and Mary Patillo, and I think he is possibly the one who is a grandson to Peter Steedman and Jean Coalier.

[Evandarcy]

I have found both the marriage and death records. On the ancestry tree that these come from it states the parents as Alexander Steedman 1790-1912 and Mary White 1790-1912, would that make sense for them to be James's parents? All the other trees have his parents listed as Henry Steedman and Mary Patullo.

[Forfarian]

I have found both the marriage and death records. On the ancestry tree that these come from it states the parents as Alexander Steedman 1790-1912 and Mary White 1790-1912, would that make sense for them to be James's parents? All the other trees have his parents listed as Henry Steedman and Mary Patullo.

Well, I think I have made it clear that I am quite certain that "all the other trees" are wrong. Even without the primary evidence of the death certificate.

Sadly, this is all too common; one sloppy researcher uploads a tree with wrong information, and then along come umpteen other people, and just copy the dud information. Then, before you know it, you have dozens of trees with the same error, and then the next person comes along and thinks, "Ah! If all these people think that's right, it must be right", and they copy it all over again.

Never, ever, believe anything you find online, and especially not trees submitted to commercial web sites like Ancestry, FindMyPast, MyHeritage etc etc, unless it's an image of an original document, and even then bear in mind that errors can and do occur.

And I don't believe their dates - 1790-1912 would mean Alexander and Mary were both 122 years old when they died, which is arrant nonsense.

You have excellent evidence, provided by his son William, that James St*dman, husband of Marion Campbell, was the son of Alexander St*dman and Mary White.

[Neale1961]

When James married in 1854 he was employed at the Mill.
This is probably him in the 1851 census

Census:   1851 Midlothian (MLN) Corstorphine-
Piece:   678 Enumeration District:   3
Folio:   690 Page:   8 Schedule:   25
House or Street Name:   Saughton Mains


SMITH   James   Head     M   M   32   Mill Master Emp 5m   Midlothian   Mid Calder      
SMITH   Marey   Wife     M   F   45   Miller's Wife   Midlothian   Corstorphine      
DALGLEISH   Thomas   Stpson   U   M   24   Miller   Midlothian   Corstorphine      
DALGLEISH   James   Stpson   U   M   22   Miller   Midlothian   Corstorphine      
SMITH   Janet   Dau   -   F   12   Scholar   Midlothian   Corstorphine      
SMITH   George   Son   -   M   10   Scholar   Midlothian   Corstorphine      
SMITH   Lilias   Dau   -   F   8   Scholar   Midlothian   Corstorphine      
SMITH   Helen   Dau   -   F   5      Midlothian   Corstorphine      
BROWN   Elizabeth   Servnt   U   F   21   House Servant   Peeblesshire   Newlands      
STEEDMAN   James   Servnt   U   M   18   Carter   Midlothian   Colinton      

[Forfarian]

Good find, Neale.

In which case he's not the James St*dman in the household of Peter S in 1851, so he's not the one with Peter S and Jean Coalier in 1841 either.

Can we find an approximately 8-year-old James S with parents Alexander and Mary in 1841?

[Neale1961]

The only option I could see for 1841

Census:   1841 Midlothian (MLN) Colinton
Piece:   677
Enumeration District:   1
Page:   4
House or Street Name:   Craiglockhart

STEADMAN   Elisbeth   F   40      Midlothian   
STEADMAN   Margret   F   11      Midlothian   
STEADMAN   James   M   8      Midlothian   
STEADMAN   Elisbeth   F   5      Midlothian   


ADDED - this is not the right James in 1841. I have followed this family, and looked at them in detail, and this James died in 1858.
Also, the 1851 census I posted above is NOT correct.

[Neale1961]

I wonder if this is correct for the 1841 census.
The father also has the right occupation.


Census:   1841   County:   Midlothian (MLN) Civil Parish:   Glencross
Piece:   687  Enumeration District:   1   Page:   2
House or Street Name:   Turn House

STEADMAN   Alexander     M   40     Agricultural Labourer   born Out of County   
STEADMAN   Ann       F      35            born Out of County   
STEADMAN   Agness   F   14      born Midlothian   
STEADMAN   James   M   11      born Midlothian   

[Neale1961]

And then in 1851 we see Alexander and wife Ann still in the same place.

Census:   1851  County:   Midlothian (MLN)   Civil Parish:   Glencross
Piece:   687  Enumeration District:   1  Folio:   692  Page:   5   Schedule:   15
House or Street Name:   Turnhouse


STEEDMAN   Alexander   Head       M      M   51     Shepherd   Peeblesshire   Linton      
STEEDMAN   Ann     Wife   M   F   48        Roxburghshire   Wilton      
STEEDMAN   Alexander   Son   -   M   9   Scholar   Midlothian   Glencross      
TURNBULL   James   Lodger   U   M   36   Labourer   Roxburghshire   Wilton

___________

Those are Alexander STEEDMAN and Ann TURNBALL
The youngest son Alexander has a baptism in 1841 Glencorse.
Other Children - William 1824, Agnes 1826, James 1829 - all in Glencorse.

Marriage
STEEDMAN   ALEXANDER   to  ANN TURNBULL
11/10/1824   LASSWADE