Help with Joseph please

[Helina]

Sorry its the Williams family again.
Joseph Williams born 1805 Olveston, parents James and Mary Williams.
I have come across 2 marriages, one to Elizabeth Skinner in 1838 Bristol. the other to Rachel Browne in 1832 Almondsbury.

10 trees on ancestry have Joseph married to Elizabeth which I do not think is correct
1st Joseph was a farmer not a gardener
His father was very much alive not deceased as described, James died in 1856 (have death certificate)
Joseph was down as single
The second marriage to Rachel Browne seems more correct but not 100% sure
According to ancestry Rachel was born in 1794, age difference, born in Almondsbury, they had 3 children Elizabeth b 1819, Rachel b 1820 and John b 1823. So if correct the marriage year is wrong.
and its a bit old at 38 to start having children?
Any help would be appreciated
helina

[ColC]

I note the baptism, have you found any census returns stating his occupation?

Joseph Williams baptism 1 Jan 1806 Olveston, Gloucester

The tree that states he married Elizabeth Skinner, notes Joseph as 1811-1871

Colin

[Helina]

Yes in the 1851 census

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/GLSHO107_1956_1957-0323?pId=7630485

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
I agree I don't think he is the one who marries Elizabeth.
I think that is the Joseph Williams bapt 16.10.1808 s of Francis and Elizabeth  Williams  looks like the one in Almondbury.
Father Francis is born in Olveston in 1774 and buried at Almondbury 13.7.1828 age 54 of Almondbury Hill. His sons Francis born 1805 and George born 1804 seem to be buried there too.

Then we have Joseph born 1800 s of John and Ann Williams bapt 16 Feb 1800 (family there until daughter Hannah born 1822).
And your Joseph bapt 1805 s of James and Mary . Son George 1802 in Olveston ,a butcher. Elder son James born 1801 farmer in Olveston .The family seem to have stayed in Olveston.

But if we look at the censuses that is not right.
1861 Olveston
Joseph Williams 61 farmer
Charlotte Webb 62 Almondsbury sister in law

She started life as Charlotte Brown 14.10.1798 d of George and Elizabeth at Almondsbury.
She married Henry Webb at Bristol st Pauls 21.10.1841.
That Joseph remarries an Eliza 1861-1871.
That also seems to be at St pauls 12.10.1869
Joseph Williams s of John Williams a widower and Eliza Luce spinster d of John Luce
And she is born in Olveston as per the 1871 census and about the right age.
I can't see a copy of the marriage only a partial transcript.

So it looks like Joseph Williams who marries Rachel Brown in 1832 is the son of John and Ann.
Joseph who marries Elizabeth Skinner is the son of Francis and Elizabeth ,given that Francis is deceased by then.
And I don't know what happened to Joseph Williams born 1805 s of James and Mary.

Does that help?

Ciderdrinker

[Helina]

Thank you Ciderdrinker,  I will have to sort the Williams out which will be interesting, back to the drawing board regarding Joseph born 1805 and George born

[ColC]

I will post this there are some overlaps with ciderdrinkers post.

I note on the 1851 Joseph is 51, strange none of their children were present?

Joseph is still there in 1861 age 62, a widower, Rachel died 1858, below.
Elizabeth Webb, noted as his sister in law age 62, W ? by 1881 Joseph 81 an Elizabeth 55 is noted as wife.

Joseph's age is consistently showing born 1800, so is the 1806 baptism correct, it may well be that he was born earlier or is his father John there are two born Olveston in 1800?


WILLIAMS, RACHEL   
64 
GRO Reference: 1858  D Quarter in THORNBURY  Volume 06A  Page 128

Colin