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Author Topic: Scottish marriages conundrum!  (Read 501 times)

Online BumbleB

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Scottish marriages conundrum!
« on: Sunday 28 April 24 15:37 BST (UK) »
Apologies for this - I have no experience of Scottish law!

1897 - St Francis Church, Glasgow - bride is named as Annie O'Brien, spinster, Tailoress, aged 20.  Parents - Thomas O'Brien, Commissionaire and Margaret O'Brien, ms Kane.  Groom is John Hendry O'Pray.

There are some children born to this couple, but all of them die at an early age.

1901 census - John Henry O'Pray, Annie and 2 children are living in Glasgow.

Move on to 1908 -

1908 - St Mary's Cathedral, Aberdeen - bride is named as Annie O'Brien, spinster, Tailoress, aged 29.  Parents - Thomas O'Brien, Commissionaire and Margaret O'Brien, ms Kane.  Groom is David Joseph Schulman.  Dispensation was received for this marriage as the groom was Jewish.

As far as I can see John Hendry O'Pray does not die until 1931 when there is an entry for JH O'P with the same mother's maiden name entered as on the marriage entry in 1897.

 :-\ :-\ :-\



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Online RJ_Paton

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Re: Scottish marriages conundrum!
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 28 April 24 15:54 BST (UK) »
If there was no divorce it leaves three possibles

1. By sheer coincidence there were two Annie O'briens whose parents also had the same name (unlikely but stranger things have happened)

2. The 2nd marriage for Annie  may have been because she believed her first husband to be dead, the time period appears to be long enough but if that was the case there remains the question of why she declared herself a spinster and not a widow.

3. Given the distance between Glasgow and Aberdeen Annie may have obtained what was sometimes referred to as a divorce by geography - ie she moved away from anybody who may have known her and lived a different life (I have a few of these)

Online BumbleB

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Re: Scottish marriages conundrum!
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 28 April 24 16:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you.  I like alternative 3  :) 

She did, in fact, marry for a third time, but in this instance she waited a month between the death of David and her next marriage, and admitted to be a widow.   ;D ;D
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline GR2

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Re: Scottish marriages conundrum!
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 28 April 24 21:06 BST (UK) »
It would be interesting to see how the marital status of J H O'P is given on his death certificate.

Online BumbleB

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Re: Scottish marriages conundrum!
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 28 April 24 22:00 BST (UK) »
If he he was my relative, I would comply - but he isn't!!!  Sorry  :'(
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Online BumbleB

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Re: Scottish marriages conundrum!
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 28 April 24 22:25 BST (UK) »
Just spent my last 6 credits (due to expire tomorrow) and not a lot of success.  All I got was a corrected entry - no help!!!!
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline oldfashionedgirl

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Re: Scottish marriages conundrum!
« Reply #6 on: Monday 29 April 24 07:58 BST (UK) »
Morning
His death certificate says he died age 55 in Glasgow from a hemorrhage from a cut throat.
It stares he was married to Annie O’Brien.

The corrected entry states that his death was suicide.

Interestingly they had a son also called John Hendrey O’Pray in 1901 who died aged 11 months from measles.

Online BumbleB

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Re: Scottish marriages conundrum!
« Reply #7 on: Monday 29 April 24 08:04 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for that - I obviously hit the wrong entry and only got the corrected entry rather than the original full death entry.   :-[  And your response is very useful. 

I would be interested to know who registered his death!!!
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline oldfashionedgirl

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Re: Scottish marriages conundrum!
« Reply #8 on: Monday 29 April 24 08:21 BST (UK) »
It was his sister who registered his death.

The 1911 census has her living with DJ Schulman 29 in Aberdeen, he is a reporter for a newspaper and she is a palmist aged 33.
They have two children living with them.
Eva Barrett Schulman 5 who is described as his adopted daughter and Fred O’Brien 5 who is a nephew.
Annoyingly they haven’t filled in the children still alive/no longer alive column.

Interesting she states her place of birth as Lucknow India
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