Counterfeit birth certificates in 1920s?

[Noteventhebirdsareupyet]

I thought that adoption certificates were not available except by application of the person or a child if person has died?

My Grandfather is dead. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[youngtug]

FreeBMD;

 Births Sep 1919   (>99%)
Koselj    Harold A F    Forrest    Lambeth    1d   552

[phil57]

I've mentioned here before that my GF had a birth certificate which he believed to be his, and which as far as I have been able to tell, he obtained from Somerset House in 1946. However it was for a different person born the same year and having the same name. He died still believing it to be correct, and it set me on a merry goose chase when I first started my research, because I took it at face value and it was many months and a lot of research later when I discovered information that brought it into question.

He was orphaned at 3 years of age in 1901, taken into the care of the local poor law union, later placed on a training ship and went on to join the navy, so knew nothing of his actual parents or his family. But believing he was born in London (he wasn't, but his parents moved back there when he was only a few months old) having applied to Somerset House and given them his name, year and place of birth as London, the certificate he obtained was the only one they could have realistically come up with.

[heywood]

I am not sure I am keeping up here - so is he Harold Arthur Forrest, b 1919, Lambeth living in Hampstead in 1921 with Harold and Eleanor Forrest?

Marriage 1922, Hampstead
Harold Forrest and Irene Hardings

[Dundee]

Just adding a link to the previous post.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=881050.0

Debra 

[heywood]

I am not sure I am keeping up here - so is he Harold Arthur Forrest, b 1919, Lambeth living in Hampstead in 1921 with Harold and Eleanor Forrest?

Marriage 1922, Hampstead
Harold Forrest and Irene Hardings

This family are together though in 1939, but does fit with the previous information.
Maybe he was ‘adopted’ by Harold.

[heywood]

Just adding a link to the previous post.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=881050.0

Debra 

You are very patient, Debra.
I think I understand now - Irene/Eleanor is not named as mother - is that it? Is the mother, Elsie?
Aren’t there some birth certificates which are Occasional copy A? Might that be the ‘A’.

[LizzieL]

I have never  needed my long one for anything , driving licences, emigration , passport applications both ,  Aus and British ones, and  green cards in  Asia. I used my Short one on everything that needed a birth cert.
  The only one exception   that I  ever needed a long cert  was around 15 years ago , when I decided to send off  for  my 1st  Irish passport ( as my  Irish  citizenship  is through my  Irish  born  mother, I  needed my long cert to show my mum's name on it    unlike my British passport and my Aus  passports that didnt need my parents names on the cert).

need a full BC for most things now

https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-adult-passport/what-documents-you-need-to-apply


You were born or adopted in the UK
What documents you need depend on when you were born.

Before 1 January 1983
You’ll need your full birth certificate or adoption certificate.

"On or after 1 January 1983
You’ll need your full birth certificate or adoption certificate and either:

your mother’s or father’s full UK birth certificate, or the Home Office certificate of registration or naturalisation, or a British passport belonging to one of your parents that was valid when you were born, or a British passport number for either parent

evidence of one of your parents’ immigration status in the UK at the time of your birth, for example a foreign passport belonging to one of your parents that was valid when you were born

If you send documents relating to your father, you must also send your parents’ marriage certificate."

[heywood]

Reply #35 - the previous thread:
“ Wow! You were all right weeks ago! My Grandfather was Harold Arthur Forrest Koselj. I had no way of identifying him as such a few weeks ago but I finally received the divorce file yesterday where Eleanor's first husband Frederick caught up with her. It mentions that she gave birth to two sons in her second marriage and there is a handwritten note stating their names. So far, this is the only information I have, I don't believe that Elsie the mother was ever a Forrest. The Father on the certificate is Ivan Koselj. Could the mother have simply lied about having previously been a Forrest, in order to make passing him over to the Forrests a bit easier? Irene/Eleanor has form for making up maiden names, the name Hardinge that she was using appears never to have been hers to use and was borrowed to enable a second marriage to Harold Forrest Senior without a divorce from Parsons.”


Just posting this more for myself probably, so it seems that Irene/Eleanor was the mother and I K was named as the father but somehow Harold is in the picture too because of the name Forrest.
Not sure now what the problem is. If there is no copy of the birth certificate used by Harold jnr then it can’t be solved, surely.