Mothers maiden name

[David Nicoll]

Hi, sorry, it’s obvious when you know!
Go to the certificate in question.
Above the certificate, there is a “Report an issue” button, select that and put in that you are finding it hard to read the mother’s maiden name. If you use the “Report an issue, it pre-fills  record entry data. Sometimes they will just read it for you from the original, but more usually, they rescan and send an updated copy to you. It then gets updated for everyone else, but that can take a while.
I also make a point of correcting indexes where someone has misread a name, I have come across some pretty strange misreadings, but some can be understood as the people doing the later transcriptions were not Scot’s.

[Lisa in California]

I’ve not reread all of the postings so apologies if the answers can be found in them…

What documents have you found for Frances, please?  Two Ancestry trees have 1881-1901 census transcriptions (no original documents); death unknown.  Have you found any documents for just Frances (not her children) other than the above census returns and the marriage document?  Is there a possibility that the 1881-1901 returns are for a different Frances and John? 

The family trees state Frances’ parents were Niven Mansfield and Frances Galloway.  Supposedly, Frances’ parents were deceased at the time of her marriage.  Is there a possibility that her parents died when Frances was young and a family member (Niven) raised her?

In 1881, John and Frances were living with Ann Duffy, a relative.  Have you researched Ann to find out her connection to John and Frances?

I’ve seen records for Irish births where forenames were written in Latin. After a brief search, I haven’t found the Latin word for Frances. Was Francesco a name that was known in Scotland?  If not, was she (and her parent/parents) possibly not Scottish?

Have you researched Niven Mansfield?

I don’t have access to Scottish records (nor knowledge about them) so I can’t help, but your puzzle is quite intriguing.


Hopefully, the clearer image will help.

[rosie17]

There doesn't appear to be any records on S P for Niven Mansfield or a Frances Galloway
I think the person who registered the death of Frances Mansfield 1917 was not sure of her parents .I would say the parents mentioned on her marriage certificate are the correct ones .No luck finding Frances on 1861/1871 census records

Rosie

[brigidmac]

To answer Lisa

The originals I have seen are the marriage ...waiting for clearer version
And the 1891 John is a ship fireman born Ireland age 36
Francess born Perth age 30

 Annie 12 Esther 10 John 6 all born Lanarkshire

Living at 14 school wynd
All people on page at same address

The sco on her name at marriage is

actually a double ss  I think

Nothing in scotland for Frances alone

I've looked for a Niven & Alexander Mansfield with no success

No evidence of a mother Agnes either

Yes I will see if I can work out Ann Duffy's relationship

Added * she's not the one with maiden name Forbes Husband hugh

She could be a single mother I suppose

[David Nicoll]

Just a thought, both her parents were dead by the time she married. She may not have known where she was born. With a quick look, the 47th Foot were nowhere near Perth at the relevant time.
Have you found her in the 1911 census?
She will have filled that in herself , I have seen some changes in place of birth, husbands going close enough, then the wife making it more accurate after his death!

[Lisa in California]

Is the name 'Irans' or 'Irons'?

Probably no connection with your Frances and John, but I thought the following was interesting, given the above suggestion…

1881 Glasgow Anderston census - possibly your Beggs couple?
Ann Duffy, age 33, born Ireland and Hugh Duffy, age 6. In the same household, recorded as other relatives:
“Francies Biggs”, born c1858, Perth
John Biggs, age 29
Annie Biggs, age 2

1861 Glasgow census - possibly the same Ann?
Ann Duffy, age 18, born c1843, Ireland
(Father) John Duffy, age 48
(Mother) “Agne Iran Duffy”, age 40
Jennes, age 21
John, age 15
Elizabeth, age 13

After a quick search, I could not find John and Agne Iran Duffy in 1871.

[brigidmac]

The children in that 1861  Duffy family were all born Ireland looks like Agnes her husband and eldest son were stonemasons

I think Jennes may be mistranscription of James .

You could be onto something here Lisa
Frances Mansfield could be a step sister of Ann Duffy if the latter was a single mother of Hugh

An alternative is that Ann DUFFYs maiden name was Collins

I LL get some more SP credits to check the original of Iran

[Lisa in California]

The children in that 1861  Duffy family were all born Ireland looks like Agnes her husband and eldest son were stonemasons

I think Jennes may be mistranscription of James .

You could be onto something here Lisa
Frances Mansfield could be a step sister of Ann Duffy if the latter was a single mother of Hugh

An alternative is that Ann DUFFYs maiden name was Collins

I’ll get some more SP credits to check the original of Iran

Just popping in for a moment (middle of the night here)…or possibly wait for the better marriage image?

[brigidmac]

The 1861 entry mother's name is Ann jean  DUFFY  but it looks like ' " "iron ".

Eldest son as I thought was James

 The younger children including Ann Duffy are on 2nd page so it cost 12 credits
I think I should follow known links first

Yes the Niven connection I had only seen on a family tree so there is no confirmation