John Murray

[beaglelady]

Hi everyone

I have a John Murray b. 1721 Ewes, Dumfriesshire.  His parents are Lord Edward Murray and Lady Katherine Skeene.  Edward's father is Sir John Murray 1st Marquess of Atholl, Knight of the Thistle of Fife.  Ive found this info on several members trees on Ancestry.  What im puzzled about is how to confirm if Edward is actually a Lord and his father's status of a Marquess of Atholl and Knight?  Where can I see this info for myself please?

Many thanks

Elaine

[Neale1961]

You will find plenty of information on this family by doing a simple "google Search"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Murray,_1st_Marquess_of_Atholl

[trish1120]

If he is the John Murray who married Mary Boyles in Norfolk I would be sceptical of the Trees that name his Parents as the ones you have.

John/Mary bapt Wells -next-the Sea;

MARY 27 Dec 1753
ANN    30 Apr 1755
JOHN 8 Sep 1756
ELIZABETH 30 Oct 1757 buried 15 May 1762 age 4
VALENTINE 17 May 1759 buried 19 Oct 1761, infant
CHARLOTTE 22 Sep 1761
ELIZABETH 26 Apr 1763
JAMES VALENTINE and GEORGE WILLIAM 2 Jun 1764, Twins   
ELLEN BENNETT 14 Jul 1765
ROBERT 15 Nov 1766
CHARLES 10 Sep 1768

On some bapts John is Dr John Murray

There is also a WILLIAM buried 1 Apr 1771 son of John/Mary

So I would say Trees that have John Murray and Ann BENNETT as his Parents may be more correct.

Trish

[trish1120]

Entry on Familysearch.Org has;
John Murray
Birth 29 Nov 1721 Unthank Farm, near Hawick, Roxburgshire
Bapt 24 Jan 1722 Ewes, Dumfriesshire

[Forfarian]

If Ancestry says that John Murray, born 1721 in Ewes, Dumfries-shire, is the son of Edward Murray and Katherine Skeen, Ancestry is peddling rubbish (as is its wont).

According to the index to the original records at www.scotlandspeople.go.uk, John Murray, baptised 24 January 1721 (not 1722 as FamilySearch suggests) in Ewes, was the son of John Murray and his mother is not named. See attached screenshot.

Scotland's People (SP) has no records of the baptism of any children to Edward Murray and C/Katherine Ske*n*.

Forget about Ancestry and other commercial web sites and go for the original records at SP.

[Forfarian]

There is a mention of Edward Murray, son of John Murray and Amelia Stanley, at http://www.thepeerage.com/p60911.htm#i609110 - however this is extracted from a genealogical compilation and not to be trusted 100% as it's not a primary source.

Edward Murray's wife is not named there.

SP has a record of the burial of an Edward Murray in Edinburgh Canongate on 17 November 1737.

According to The Peerage, Edward Murray's son John married Euphemia Ross or Boyd, widow of the Earl of Kilmarnock, but had no family, and died in 1748 in Edinburgh. SP has a record of the burial of a John Murray in Edinburgh Canongate on 21 October 1748.

Both listings in The Peerage have an icon which might imply that there is a gravestone, but I can't find anything online about such a stone or stones.

There may be additional information in the original burial records.

[beaglelady]

Hi folks

Thanks for your replies.  Ok there seems to be some doubt over John Murray so ive gone back to my Grt G/father Samuel Murray b.1747 Morton, Dumfriesshire.  He married a Janet Johnstone in 1779. Geneanet does state Samuels parents as John Murray and Betti Johnson but obvs cant trust this info.
Samuel had a dau Helen Murray who married John Hastings.  I know Im on the right track with these ancestors.  Just cant seem to confirm if John Murray and Betti Johnson is correct info??

[Forfarian]

You have got to stop believing anything you find on Ancestry, Geneanet and the like. By all means use the information there as pointers, but go for the primary records - those created at the time of the event by or for the people who were actually involved - at Scotland's People.

These record that Samuel Murray and Jan(n)et Johnston(e) had three children, all baptised in Lochmaben, Dumfries-shire between 1767 and 1770. See screenshot from the SP index. There could of course be several more whose baptism records have not survived. So either all these children were illegitimate, or they were married long before 1779. The original records will clarify that point. It seems that the marriage record, if it ever existed, has not survived. This is very common.

How did you get to Samuel M and Janet J? And where did you find that marriage date of 1779?

If Samuel M and Janet J were married before the birth of their son James in 1767, the Samuel born in 1747 is probably too young to be the right one. It was unusual for a young man to be able to support a wife and family at the age of 18 or 19.

[beaglelady]

The marriage was on Geaneanet.

I got to Samuel and Janet by tracing from my Grt Grandmother Hannah Westgarth Scott nee Harris...parents Hugh Harris and Mary S Hastings....g/parents John Hastings and Helen Murray....father Samuel Murray and wife Janet Johnston. 

Geneanet may not be 100% correct but the area of my ancestors abode is correct as they were living  in or around Parish of Morton, Sanquhar.