HELP. BRICK WALL

[Anniebc44]

Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Trying to identify grandfather
i have DNA MATCHES, probably 2nd to 3rd cousin, 4% DNA and 285 cM. What relative of their’s should i be concentrating on?
Annie

[Biggles50]

Use DNA Painter to see the %age probabilities and the relationship possibles.

As a starter, I would suggest building a tree with the DNA match as the home person and work back to their Great Grandfather’s generation, that is unless they already have a accurate one.

If you are on Ancestry you could check out the Shared Matches and subscribe to Pro Tools to see what cM the Shared Matches actually share with your 285 cM match.

Good luck

[Anniebc44]

Hi. I have tried all you suggest and also the Leeds table, but I cannot work out all the data.
It is right there in front of me, but my mind goes blank.

[Biggles50]

Thanks for the PM but I’ll respond here if that is OK.

We do need more information though such as:-
(1) is the person identifiable that is a user name like Fred Jacobs rather than Fred123.
(2) a family tree where at least one deceased person is detailed.
(3) how many shared matches are there.
(4) are the shared matches identifiable.
(5) do the shared matches have useable family trees.

The above is what I would seek and if I say that for my 240 cM match who used his actual name and that he had a tree of him and his late Father.  From this I built his tree which is now 700 people strong and all the identifiable shared matches of above 30cM where there are records have been linked to in the tree.  I have linked to him and he is a second cousin.

Now there is a potential problem with all DNA matches in that prior to the Adoption Act in the 1920’s all Adoptions were essentially add hoc.  Hence if the baby was given over to A N Other and his Wife and they Registered the baby as their own then the only proof likely to be found in the origins of said baby will be DNA and how the shared matches could link to them.

That last paragraph my take some head scratching to get round the permutations and processes required to develop solutions.

Now in your case to include shared matches you may have to go back to the 285 cM matches 3x or 4x G GP’s to be able to link in some of the shared matches.

Once you have built a tree around your 285 cM match and included at least four to six shared DNA matches in the tree you could create a Gedcom file of the tree and upload it into DNA Painter’s WATO tool.

[Glen in Tinsel Kni]

If there's no obvious link using traditional genealogy methods then one/both trees could be wrong or there is an NPE event somewhere. The bmd index and certs only show what information was given and recorded, that doesn't mean it is accurate. I have a paper trail 1st cousin, nothing in documents would cause any doubt as to the relationship (I match his nephew and grand nephew too), but we only share 343cM. It's only by knowing that detail that the half relationship becomes apparent, simply seeing him in my match list  and assuming the paper  trail is accurate would lead to all sorts of problems trying to accurately build the tree  of our shred matches.

[Anniebc44]

Hi. Thank you for the response. There is an obvious link / family and DNA proves this link, but I am finding it impossible to pin point the exact person to be grandfather.

[Anniebc44]

This my Leeds results, with initials and all names deleted. Can anyone explain, if possible, what the results tell me?

[Anniebc44]

Thanks for the PM but I’ll respond here if that is OK.

We do need more information though such as:-
(1) is the person identifiable that is a user name like Fred Jacobs rather than Fred123. SEVERAL NAMES AND TREES.
(2) a family tree where at least one deceased person is detailed. SEVERAL FAMILY TREES WITH DETAILS OF DECEASED +++++
(3) how many shared matches are there. SHARED MATCHES G HAS 13, H HAS 35+,  R HAS 35+, L HAS 34, AD HAS 34, RO HAS 9, EB HAS 58 and many other named people
(4) are the shared matches identifiable. MOST HAVE TREES AND SOMEONE HAVE PARTICULAR NAMES IN COMMON (The family I believe to belong to my grandfather)
(5) do the shared matches have useable family trees. YES, MOST HAVE USEABLE TREES

MY GRANDFATHER WAS NOT ADOPTED. BORN TO UNMARRIED MOTHER. FATHER NAMED, WITH ADDRESS. THE DNA POINTS TO PEOPLE AT THIS ADDRESS. THE FATHERS GIVEN NAME IS NOT THE SURNAME OF THIS FAMILY, BUT THE CORRECT ADDRESS. THE FAMILY, I WILL CALL IT B, DESCENDANTS ARE MATCHES TO MY DNA.

I HOPE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THESE NOTES IN BOLD.

The above is what I would seek and if I say that for my 240 cM match who used his actual name and that he had a tree of him and his late Father.  From this I built his tree which is now 700 people strong and all the identifiable shared matches of above 30cM where there are records have been linked to in the tree.  I have linked to him and he is a second cousin.

Now there is a potential problem with all DNA matches in that prior to the Adoption Act in the 1920’s all Adoptions were essentially add hoc.  Hence if the baby was given over to A N Other and his Wife and they Registered the baby as their own then the only proof likely to be found in the origins of said baby will be DNA and how the shared matches could link to them.

That last paragraph my take some head scratching to get round the permutations and processes required to develop solutions.

Now in your case to include shared matches you may have to go back to the 285 cM matches 3x or 4x G GP’s to be able to link in some of the shared matches.

Once you have built a tree around your 285 cM match and included at least four to six shared DNA matches in the tree you could create a Gedcom file of the tree and upload it into DNA Painter’s WATO tool.

[Biggles50]

Thanks for the information.

With so much detail you should be able to build a tree around the main DNA match and incorporate quite a few of the Shared Matches.

To me the 285 cM match may be a Half 1st Cousin Once Removed which would point towards the Grandfather spreading his seeds and this would be my starting presumption if I was faced with such a match.

If the tree does not support this I would then look back a Generation for the MRCA which means looking at a Sibling of the Grandfather?

The above does assume that the generational distances are once removed, perhaps I should have asked for clarification.

Another issue with DNA Matches in this cM range is that there are a lot of possible relationship options and it is a case of working through developing the tree.

If you do what you have been advised to do and use the WATO tool that will result in a numerical result and %age probabilities for the options which in turn will provide more guidance on where to concentrate ones endeavours.

Alas there is no easy way.

Now as for the Leeds Method, the idea is to allocate the matches to each Grandparental line, ideally one creates eight groups, one for each Great Grandparent and their descendants using the DNA matches in the 90 to 400 cM range, making sure that siblings and first Cousins are not included in the data, the results indicate the line where each of the matches are likely to have their MRCA with you.

Do read the text that goes with the description as there are limitations to be aware of.

You should now have enough advice on how to proceed.