Thomas Stobbart (1861 and 1871 searches, please)

[JenB]

Newcastle Evening Chronicle, 25 September 1906:

The death has occurred in Annfield Plain of Mr Thomas Stobbart one of the oldest residents of the district. Deceased, who was 72 years of age, was a native of Cassop but had worked for Messrs U A Ritson* and sons for over 40 years. He stood 6ft 1 1/2 inches in his stockings and weighed 18 stones when only 17 years of age. Deceased was three times married and is survived by nine sons and two daughters.

* Added: Ritsons were the owners of South Pontop Colliery
http://www.dmm.org.uk/colliery/s050.htm

[BassinghamTerrier]

Well!!!
I go for my dinner, come back and the place has exploded into action!! 

Thanks for all of the responses; I'll look into each in a few minutes.
That 1871 seems to have been key, so many, many thanks to JenB for your digging there.

Just for starters, I'll begin with the death (Jen B again!  )
That's the one that I had always thought was correct, and it now looks certain, thank you.
But... why does his widow declare herself "married" in 1911?
I can only think that it's a mistake.
Her brother Robert Cresswell, is with the family through several censuses as a lodger, and he is also "married" in 1911 but I now suspect that he wasn't (although I haven't really looked into that yet).

Anyway, I'll now set to work adding the many details thrown up in this thread.

You are all superstars! 

[JenB]

Is this Thomas's  burial in September 1906?
Entry 1571, residence 'Villa View' Annfield Plain. occupation Miner
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3VC-F6CQ?cat=997267&i=757

I should have said that the burial record is entitled 'burial ground of Collierley', but it is more commonly known as Hare Law Cemetery.

[JenB]

There's a newspaper article about 'Villa View' being offered for sale in 1902. It's described as being on the Main Road and near the Wesleyan Chapel in Annfield Plain, and containing four rooms.

Given the description and looking at the 1911 census summary books I think it's also very likely where Mary was living in 1911.

I'm fairly confident that it was one of the houses just to the south of the Methodist Church on this map
https://maps.nls.uk/view/120935016#zoom=6&lat=4045&lon=4240&layers=BT

The one immediately beside the church is now called Wesley House. I think that might well have been Villa View. It was immediately opposite Pontop House which might well have been the 'Villa' referred to in the name of the house. Immediately next door is Abergele Place where my grandparents lived for a short while before moving over the road to Queens Parade.

Trivia moment: the Methodist Church was called St John's, and it was a really magnificent place. My parents were married there and I was baptised there. Sadly the congregation slowly dwindled and it was demolished in 1962.

[BassinghamTerrier]

My grateful thanks go to everyone who has contributed to this thread: that's you, JenB, and you, Ciderdrinker.

All of the information posted here checks out and fits perfectly.
I have subsequently added it to my wife's tree; she is thrilled to be in the lead with a thrice-married rellie!
As a parting shot, it would seem that the heretofore unknown marriage to Ann Turnbull in July 1858 was a "shotgun" affair as son John Thomas Stobbart was born soon after in the September quarter!
And, incidentally, he must have died very soon after as John Turnbull Stobbart was born on 20 Sep 1864. I'll look for a death...

All that remains now is to find Thomas' birth/baptism.
In spite of early facts pointing to Cassop in 1830, I am now erring on the side of c1834 as that date fits with most of the census returns and also his age at death.
I'll start searching for this tomorrow; we all deserve a rest for today!

PS Keep your eyes peeled for an upcoming request for help on his father, another verdammt Thomas Stobbart!

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
I can't find Thomas's baptism either  but it does make a difference which of Thomas Stobbart's Senior's wives are his mother.
Thomas Stobbart married firstly at St Andrews  Newcastle upon Tyne 7.11.1824
Thomas Stobbart and Isabella Craig wit Thomas Scott and Thomas Lee
(Isabella daughter of John and Margaret cabinet maker of Gateshead born 11.10.1807 bapt 29.1.1809 st Johns Newcastle)

2ndly to Elizabeth Bygate 28.6.1834 at the same Church. Witnesses Robert Bygate (her father a taylor) and R Towers.
Elizabeth bapt Washington 22.9.1811 born 17.6.1811 d of Robert and Eleanor nee Wright taylor
Her sister Ann went on to marry a James Stobbart at Washington 28.5.1838.Surely two brothers marrying 2 sisters.

But anyway Thomas had the two girls from the 1841 census with his first wife.
Ann 13.6.1825 at Washington.Buried 10th August aged 8 weeks  ,Ann 20.9.1829 and Margaret Craike /Craig13.11.1831 at Washington.
Isabella died 3.4.1833 age 27 years at Washington .
So did she die in childbirth having Thomas?

Then we have 28.6.1834 the second marriage and Robert 26.11.1837 at Washington with Elizabeth.
Elizabeth 21.6.1839 at Kelloe registered as Eleanor.
Joseph 4.10.1844 Kelloe
William 24.9.1846 Lanchester
James 28.1.1852 Kelloe.

But I still can't see Thomas.
Be careful on the baptisms at Wasington as it looks like Thomas Stobbart Senior's parents were also Thomas and Isabella Stobbart (nee Mitchell ) and it's easy to get them mixed up.

Sorry if you already have that

Ciderdrinker

[BassinghamTerrier]

Thank you most kindly once again.
I was not aware that Thomas was already widowed when he married Elizabeth Bygate!
I was wondering where the others with him in the 1841 Census were from...
I'll add this info later today.

Edit: Thomas married Isabella in Dec not Nov - do you agree?
That's the date that AŁ throws up anyway.

And... dates for the Stobbart/Bygate offsrping: are these births or baptisms, please?

As an aside, can you please tell me which site you use for your research?
I'm on Ancestry and almost all of the stuff posted by you and by JenB doesn't come up on there.
I'm beginning to think that I backed the wrong horse when I signed up to AŁ all those years ago! 

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Yes .It was December .The image is on FindMyPast.I went with the date on the  transcript but it was 7 Dec 1824.
The baptisms at Washington and Kelloe also came from FindMyPast.
The dates are for the baptism .Occasionally the birthdate is on there but usually it's just the baptism and I would have said if it was the birthdate as well.
Sometimes it's just where you are looking for.I do a lot of research in Birmingham and Warwickshire and Ancestry is best for that. but Northern Britain Cumberland and Newcastle etc does seem to be better on FindMyPast.
Just pot luck
You never know your local Library may have FindMyPast for free and you could spend the afternoon having a look. If you want a certain image I can send it along by email but I'll need your email address for that. Thomas's marriages just give him signing with a x so there is no nice signature to see.

If you need any help just say.

Ciderdrinker

[BassinghamTerrier]

Once again, CiderDrinker - I am indebted to your hard work and kindness.
Thanks for this bit of extra info too.
It's not often that I cuss AŁ, but when I read the wealth of info that others can provide using FindMyPast I do become frustrated.

I'll see what the local libraries have to offer.