Author Topic: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.  (Read 692 times)

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 23 November 24 14:06 GMT (UK) »
Did you check SP or the 1891 census for the other birth?  That Elizabeth mmn Bogle died 1888
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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 23 November 24 14:36 GMT (UK) »
So the Elizabeth that died would’ve been Elizabeth Johnstone then?
The death certificate will tell you.

But it does look probable.

Elizabeth J was aged 3 in the 1891 census. This means that (assuming that her age is accurate) she had not yet had her 4th birthday by the date of the 1891 census, which was on 5 April 1891. Therefore she was born between 6 April 1887 and 5 April 1888. Not necessarily in 1888.

(The original census never gives a year of birth. Assuming accuracy, it tells you the age of the person on their last birthday before the day of the census; and subtracting the age in a census from the year of the census gives a wrong year 3 times out of 4.)

There is a birth in Hawick in 1887 of an Elizabeth Johnstone, mother's maiden name not included in the index. That omission is often an indicator of an illegitimate birth. You need to get a copy of that certificate and see what it tells you.

Also a copy of the death certificate of Elizabeth Jardine mmn Johnstone in 1891 to see what that tells you.

Elizabeth Jardine mmn Bogle is a red herring. She was most likely one of 7 children of John Johnstone and Mary Bogle, married in Wilton in 1886.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline nenepops

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 23 November 24 16:40 GMT (UK) »
This is all so confusing🫣

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 23 November 24 16:46 GMT (UK) »
Elizabeth Johnstone is under her mother’s maiden name. Her mother married after Elizabeth was born 1890 to Martin Jardine.
Rather strange that the 1901 for Martin Jardine has a 1yr old Elizabeth.  Also shows Elizabeth Jardine was b England 1862 but 1881 & 1891 shows England 1869

1891 also has a 5mth old Joseph Jardine who is with Martin & Elizabeth in 1901

For info.

1891 census
Town   Hawick
County   Roxburghshire
Address   South Trinity Street
David Johnstone   58   Head
Elizabeth Johnstone   61   Wife
Elizabeth Johnstone   22   Daur
Elizabeth Johnstone   3   Boarder
Joseph Jardine           5 Ms   Boarder

1901 census
Town   Langholm
County   Dumfriesshire
Address   4 & 6 Rosevale St
Martin Jardine   31   Head
Elizth Jardine   39   Wife
Joseph Jardine   10   Son
David Jardine   8   Son
James Jardine   3   Son
Elizth Jardine   1   Daughter

Staplegordon Cemetery
Martin Jardine age 33 Burial    30 Aug 1902
James Jardine age 17 Burial    11 May 1915
Elizabeth Jardine age 68 burial 23 Jan 1937 widow of Martin Jardine

Joseph Jardine age 28, footman Burial 18 Aug 1919
son Martin McRae Jardine age 2 1/2 years burial 27 Aug 1919
Cemetery Section: Centre Interment Number 157
England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2024 - not seeing an 1891 burial for
Elizabeth Jardin at Staplegordon Cemetery  :(

Mother Elizabeth Jardine next of kin on her son David’s Army pension record year 1914
address 22 Beaconsfield Terrace Harwick
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline CaroleW

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 23 November 24 16:54 GMT (UK) »
All you have to do is download that 1891 death cert to remove your confusion.  By 1891 Elizabeth was married so it would not be unusual for Elizabeth jnr death to be registered as Jardine
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 23 November 24 16:56 GMT (UK) »
There is an 1891 death in Hawick for an Elizabeth Jardine mmn Johnston

Although they married 1890 - Elizabeth is under Johnstone in 1891 as she is with her parents
No other Elizabeth Jardine matching her age in 1891 - death age was 4yrs

I had some credits to use up on SP

Elizabeth JOHNSTON (single) Illegitimate
1891 November Twelfth,  age 3 3/4 years
Mother Elizabeth JARDINE M.S, JOHNSTONE
Present at death grandfather David JOHNSON
Registered 1891 November 13th at Harwick
Cause of death membranous - croup for 7 days
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline nenepops

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 23 November 24 16:58 GMT (UK) »
There is an 1891 death in Hawick for an Elizabeth Jardine mmn Johnston

Although they married 1890 - Elizabeth is under Johnstone in 1891 as she is with her parents
No other Elizabeth Jardine matching her age in 1891 - death age was 4yrs

I had some credits to use up on SP

Elizabeth JOHNSTON (single) Illegitimate
1891 November Twelfth,  age 3 3/4 years
Mother Elizabeth JARDINE M.S, JOHNSTONE
Present at death grandfather David JOHNSON
Registered 1891 November 13th at Harwick
Cause of death membranous - croup for 7 days
Thank you so so much. This kinda explains it.👍🏻

Offline nenepops

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 23 November 24 17:00 GMT (UK) »
Elizabeth Johnstone is under her mother’s maiden name. Her mother married after Elizabeth was born 1890 to Martin Jardine.
Rather strange that the 1901 for Martin Jardine has a 1yr old Elizabeth.  Also shows Elizabeth Jardine was b England 1862 but 1881 & 1891 shows England 1869

1891 also has a 5mth old Joseph Jardine who is with Martin & Elizabeth in 1901

For info.

1891 census
Town   Hawick
County   Roxburghshire
Address   South Trinity Street
David Johnstone   58   Head
Elizabeth Johnstone   61   Wife
Elizabeth Johnstone   22   Daur
Elizabeth Johnstone   3   Boarder
Joseph Jardine           5 Ms   Boarder

1901 census
Town   Langholm
County   Dumfriesshire
Address   4 & 6 Rosevale St
Martin Jardine   31   Head
Elizth Jardine   39   Wife
Joseph Jardine   10   Son
David Jardine   8   Son
James Jardine   3   Son
Elizth Jardine   1   Daughter

Staplegordon Cemetery
Martin Jardine age 33 Burial    30 Aug 1902
James Jardine age 17 Burial    11 May 1915
Elizabeth Jardine age 68 burial 23 Jan 1937 widow of Martin Jardine

Joseph Jardine age 28, footman Burial 18 Aug 1919
son Martin McRae Jardine age 2 1/2 years burial 27 Aug 1919
Cemetery Section: Centre Interment Number 157
England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2024 - not seeing an 1891 burial for
Elizabeth Jardin at Staplegordon Cemetery  :(

Mother Elizabeth Jardine next of kin on her son David’s Army pension record year 1914
address 22 Beaconsfield Terrace Harwick

Thank you

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Elizabeth Johnstone 1888.
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 23 November 24 17:01 GMT (UK) »
Couldn't make out the first address -

edit to add it's  the time not an address  ::)
8h 30m ? ?
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk