Alves Parish Registers - Asher

[alastairgm]

Hi Mairi,
Yes, I'd spotted that 1790 Birth but the 1780 date was supported by Margaret's 1841 Census entry in which she gave her age as a not rounded down 59. Ten years seems a lot to be wrong about your age but, as you say, in those days ages were approximate. She probably felt ten years older than she was!
I think the James Asher/Agnes Leal parentage is probably right as at the baptisms of  others of Margaret's children (e.g. James Robb 24/11/1808 - witness James Leal in Elgin) there are Leal witnesses.
I thought it was worth asking though to see if anyone had any more information.
Many thanks, Alastair

[alastairgm]

Hi Mairi,
I have now been informed that there is a Margaret Asher born in 1780, the daughter of Hugh Asher and Janet Young of Alves. The reason she is not on SP is that she was baptised into the non-conformist Associate Congregation of Forres. However, she can be found on LIBINDX; NM003866.
The connection with the Leals still stands, I think, as two of her children had Leal witnesses.
Regards, Alastair

[MairiD]

 Hi Alastair,
   So glad you have got the information you were seeking. That is very interesting about Margaret. How did you get it?   Where were non-conformists buried?

 I see there is a Hugh buried in Alves but no dates are given.

 Re. Leals.  I read they came originally from Portugal or the north west of Spain via ships bringing wine and other goods to ports on the east coast.

 Re. Ashers. I tracked them to the first settlers in Moray---some brothers or cousins in the mid-16th century with names Alexander and Robert.

 By the late 17th century the name was often recorded as Ashor and in the early to mid 18th century it was Ashur.

 Asher is a name of Judaic origin. Trade between the northern burghs (like Inverness and Aberdeen) and the Low Countries brought  Flemish settlers. Trade with the Baltic countries would also have meant incomers of Jewish origin.
 Therefore it seems both the original 'Scottish' ancestors, male and female, were foreign, possibly both of Jewish families, who soon became absorbed by marriage with the locals of those Morayshire farmlands.
  You will probably know all this already. It just fascinated me and I side- tracked into researching the trade-----half remembering history lessons at school!

 Mairi.
                 

[alastairgm]

Hi Mairi,
The info. on Margaret came from a fellow researcher in the USA. I think she got it from a Local History Center of the LDS. She says the LDS have a lot of records which are not online.
Margaret and her husband William Robb had a son, also William Robb, who married a Laing relative of mine and emigrated to the States in the 1850's, eventually settling in Wheeling, WV.
I didn't know that about the origins of the Ashers and Leals. Thanks for the information.
Can't help you about non-conformist burials. I wouldn't have thought they had separate cemeteries though.
Regards, Alastair

[Forfarian]

Re. Ashers. I tracked them to the first settlers in Moray---some brothers or cousins in the mid-16th century with names Alexander and Robert.

Interesting to see that G F Black's Surnames of Scotland doesn't mention Asher at all.

[MairiD]

  Thank you for that information.  I hadn't looked Asher up there.

  Could you look up Malish for me? 

    It appears in west Perthshire---Monzievaird and Strowan-- and I thought I had read somewhere that a group of weavers had been brought from the continent to rejuvenate the weaving industry around Crieff.  (There were weavers coming to Fife at intervals of course.) 

   Thought I had read about a connection with Drummond Castle but have searched several websites again and not found the article.

  Thanks in anticipation,
 
  Mairi.

[Forfarian]

No mention of Malish at all.

However there is a name Malise, which is from Gaelic, meaning 'shaven-headed servant of Jesus' or similar, which was a given name prevalent among the earls of Strathearn. That would account for a connection with Drummond Castle.

G F Black says that the name is still with us in the form of the surname Mellis/Mellish, which occurs in Moray among other areas.

[MairiD]

  Many thanks for that information, Forfarian.

  'Malise' rings a bell now.  I read about a Hungarian connection with the Earls of Strathearn and this name but had forgotten at the time of my post.

  The Gaelic name and meaning is interesting.
 
 
   Will have another look and see whether Malise preceded Malish in lines I am researching; McLarens and McRories of Monzievaird and Strowan, Crieff and Comrie.
 
 A John Mclaren/McRorie (he had both names) married a Janet Malish in 1725.
 
  MairiD