Jessie Crown and Philip Cohen Glasgow

[igeoff]

I posted the following message on the Lanarkshire bulletin board, but I do not really understand the Scottish shires. It probably is mainly about Glasgow, so perhaps it belongs here. Here is the message:

I am interested in Jessie Crown and Philip Cohen, my mother's parents, who came to Australia from Glasgow in the early 1900s: probably in mid 1912.

I have their marriage in 1910 and thus the names of their parents: Solomon and Ethel Crown (nee Black), and Isaac and Annie Cohen (nee Hertz). I also have Solomon's 1906 death record.

Certainly Jessie and her father and probably her siblings (Lena, Bessie and a male) came to Scotland in the early 1900s from the Russian Baltic States (the Pale). Similarly, Philip who was born in present day Lithuania also came from there with or (more likely) without parents and siblings.

I would like to know: more about any of these eg when/how they arrived or departed; even better still, their history before arriving in Scotland...

I would also like to know more about Jessie's siblings (Lena married a Mr Swirsky and the family eventually became Swan; I understand a Leon Swan, who probably is in his 90s still lives in Glasgow).

[KirstyG]

You may be able to find out if any other family members came to Australia with them by looking at the passenger lists. eg

Queensland Index to Arrivals in Brisbane and Queensland Ports 1900-1915

http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/191083


How old were Jessie and Philip when they married?

Have you looked at the Scottish 1901 census to see if any of them had arrived by that date? If they are not there then you may just have to be patient and wait another year until the 1911 census records become available.

You say that you have Solomon's death certificate. Does it state whether he was a widower or not? Who registered the death, was it one of his children?

Do you know in which area of Glasgow they lived?

Have you looked for deaths of the other family members you have named?

Scotland's People have a listing for the death of a Lena Crown, other name Swirsky in 1974 aged 75, Glasgow, Lanarkshire.


Kirsty

[KirstyG]

There is a Solomon Crown in the 1901 census on SP, in Gorbals, Glasgow, aged 36.
He is not in Scotland in the 1891 census.

The name Crown is not common in Scotland. In the 1901 census there are only 36 in the country, 13 of them in Lanarkshire. In 1891 there were 31 in the country. Maybe the difference is the arrival of your family?

[igeoff]

Thanks Kirsty; my responses are in italics below:

You may be able to find out if any other family members came to Australia with them by looking at the passenger lists. eg

Queensland Index to Arrivals in Brisbane and Queensland Ports 1900-1915

http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/191083

I believe they came to Sydney. I'll be asking relatives in Sydney to do this -- but they may not be motivated
How old were Jessie and Philip when they married?

Have you looked at the Scottish 1901 census to see if any of them had arrived by that date? If they are not there then you may just have to be patient and wait another year until the 1911 census records become available.

Yes. I have looked there. Solomon is there as a boarder, married, aged 36, Cabinetmaker at 17 Thistle Street, Govan, Hutchesontown, Glasgow. All of this is consistent with his death record of  12 March 1906 in the Govan Poorhouse [but his residence was now 65 Thistle Street] Just saw your second post. Thanks for doing that!. Ethel, his wife (nee Black) appears as his wife on the death entry and on Philip and Jessie's 1910 marriage record. Philip and his clan appear nowhere before the marriage, where his parents are named and Solomon is said to be deceased.

You say that you have Solomon's death certificate. Does it state whether he was a widower or not? Who registered the death, was it one of his children?

see above: Solomon was married when he died. A nephew, who lived at 130 Thistle Street, registered the birth.

Do you know in which area of Glasgow they lived?

Thistle Street for the Crowns, by the look of it -- see above. Jessie and Philip's address on marriage is 26 Aitkenhead Road, Glasgow. Looks like modern day Aitkenhead Street is pretty long... Someone might know more about it in the  early 20th century.

Have you looked for deaths of the other family members you have named?

Solomon is the only one of the older generation I have found. Of course I have Jessie and Philip (my grandparents), in Sydney, Australia. I have not looked hard for Lena or Bessie. My main aim, I think, is to try to trace Philip and Jessie back to entry into Scotland and, better still, to mainland and possibly Eastern Europe. But I would like to know who came to Scotland and I would LOVE to contact the Swan family

Scotland's People have a listing for the death of a Lena Crown, other name Swirsky in 1974 aged 75, Glasgow, Lanarkshire.

Thanks Kirsty, i think I have enough credits to follow that up!
Geoff


Kirsty

[KirstyG]

Lena Crown married Mr Swirsky in 1824 Gorbals, Glasgow.

There is the birth of a male Swirsky in Lanarkshire in 1924 who could be Lena's son, but I won't post his details in case he is still alive.


The is an entry in the National Archives of Scotland naming Lena Swirksy or Brown* of Glasgow in 1931.
ref:CS318/74/171   http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/
I think it is to do with Bancruptcy.
*The Brown could be a mistranscription of Crown.


I don't know if this is relevant but a lot of the details are sounding like this family...

http://www.executive-lifecoaching.com/publications/books/fathers_and_sons/pdf/Norman_Swan.pdf


I would suggest you buy some credits for Scotland's People if you have not alreay done so.

Kirsty



edit: crossed posts!

[KirstyG]

Link to other thread (which could be locked as it is empty!)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,430267.msg2948357.html#msg2948357

[igeoff]

Thanks Kirsty,

I contacted Norman Swan (who is a journalist with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation) in early December last year. He promised to contact his father, Leon, and there it stands. I expect Norman is a busy person.

Thanks also for the marriage pointer and the other possibility.

Also for the Swan article, which I had not seen, and which I read with interest.

Cheers
Geoff [who has actually spent quite a bit of time and money on Scotlandspeople.com ]

[sancti]

Marriage record for Lena shows as 1923

1923 SWIRSKY SAMUEL and CROWN LENA at  GORBALS GLASGOW/LANARK 644/17 0075

Also a death record

1966 SWIRSKY SAMUEL    Male aged  64 at EASTWOOD AND MEARNS /RENFREW

1974 SWIRSKY LENA  CROWN Female aged  75 GLASGOW GLASGOW/GLASGOW CITY

Also

1928 CROWN ETHEL   BLOCH Female aged  58 HILLHEAD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK

[igeoff]

Thanks Sancti, that's filled in some gaps for me!.

Geoff