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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Herefordshire Lookup Requests => Herefordshire => England => Herefordshire Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: dalek39 on Wednesday 28 October 09 19:08 GMT (UK)
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Information on the Hankins of Hereford. Dalek39
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you want? you have?
dates? Christian names?
come on - we need a bit more!
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Hello,
I am descended from John George Herbert Hankins and Olive Mary Te Akau Hankins-nee Hickson. JGH Hankins was son of John Herbert Hankins (Lawyer in Palmerston North NZ) he moved to NZ with his parents in 1863 from Herefordshire.JH married Agnes Sophia Weymss-Dalrymple(see Scotland Rootschat for Lieut.Col. James Dalrymple) They had 7 children. John George Herbert Hankins was their first born and eldest son.
JGH Hankins and his wife had 4 children; Annsley(?Spelling), Bryan, Ruth and Judith. Annesley had 3 children-I hope this helps.I have the names and some details of the other children of J H Hankins and Agnes and some of the children.
Moderator Comment: Post edited to remove details of living people. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc. Please exchange such information by via our personal message system
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OK...Dates I have.....John Hankins..born 1822 Bartestree Herefordshire England..
William Bartholomew Hankins born 1818..Bartestree Herefordshire, England.
Edward Hankins..born 1824 Bartestree, Herefordshire England.
Richard Hankins born bartestree, Herefordshire England.
Father...Richard Hankins..born ?
Mother. Anne born ?
John Hankins married Hannah maria herbert 15 May 1845 All Saints Herefordshire England.
Hannah Maria Herbert. born 1828, All Saints Herefordshire England.
Had 10 children...John Herbert Hankins..born 1847 - 1928
Annie M.
Ada Elizabeth
Amy Mary
Alice Herbert Hankins. born 16 Oct.1851 All Saints Hereford. England
Agnes Herbert born 1863 Hereford St Peter..England.
Richard Herbert
William Herbert.
Adele E
Edward Herbert.
John Hankins died 28 Apr. 1911 Christchurch New Zealand.
Hannah Maria Herbert/Hankins...death unknown.
Parents..Richard Hankins...Anne ?
Hannah Maria Herbert/Hankins..Daniel Herbert..Elizabeth ?
Alice Hankins married John Henry Donovan..20 Feb.1877 Christchurch NZ
John Herbert hankins..married Agnes Sophia Weymss Dalrymple..26 Oct.1873 ? Hokitika NZ.
Their son John George herbert Hankins born 20Sept.1873 Hokitika NZ
John Annesley Hankins...born 4 Nov. 1907. Palmerston North NZ.
Died 13 Dec.2000. Waikanae..NZ
He was the son of ...John George Herbert hankins and Mary Olive Te Akau Hickson...
William herbert hankins died 21/5/1923..NZ
John Herbert Hankins..died 27/6/1928.
Agnes Sophia Weymss Hankins..died 21/3/1942.
Any more ???
,
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The connection I have with the Hankins family is that John Hankins and Hannah Maria Herbert/Hankins were my GG grandparents... Their 5th child was my G grandmother Alice Herbert hankins. her eldest son was my Grandfather...Alfred Henry Donovan...born 1878 Christchurch NZ...
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If anyone can help with these dates I have given..I would dearly love to hear from them....Jennifer K
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Yes, see Paperspast West Coast Times 16 November 1872, Page 2.
The announcement of the marriage of John Herbert Hankins to Agnes Sophia Weymss-Dalrymple which took place 26th October 1872, at All Saints, Hokitika.
You mentioned Hagley Hall- Have you seen it? I can't see why JH Hankins' Father lived there though.
http://www.hagleyhall.com/the-hall/family-history
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I see what you mean...dont think so...nice place..but.....anyway, they say a mans home is his castle...with 10 kids he may have needed a large home...
How are you going with your searching ? I am still "plodding on" with JH's parents..Richard and Anne?
Why didn't they use unusual names...would have made it a lot easier...appears they did not have much imagination..maybe they didn't have a lot of names going at that time...
Its time I shut down..been a warm day here today..32d so I'll go now...thanks for the photo...gave me a smile.....you take care...Jennifer.
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32 degrees! I'm jealous though I have to say its about 18-19 here which is really strange.
See where you got the info from re: Hagley Hall. You never know, the Hankins may have had titled rellies somewhere other than thru ASWD. It says on the website for the place that they had connections in NZ.
My search has sort of halted. We cannot find a few people and my help in India has had a bereavement. She was digging up all sorts of stuff. Nevermind- I'll plod on too. Good luck with your stuff but do put it on the site.
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You might find this site useful (IGI batch numbers):
http://tinyurl.com/yfyff3z
A search by surname in the same parish brings up another Hankins Christening:
Elizabeth Mary Catherine Hankins 27th November 1847 Bartestree
Parents Richard Hankins and Mary Catherine.
Possible daughter of Richard Hankins christened 29th September 1819 Bartestree, parents Richard Hankins and Anne.
This family in LDS 1881 census living in Yarkhill, Hereford with 2 other daughters (Hankins) and a grandson (Wm Gould).
William John Hawkins* Gould born 1873, son of Thomas William Gould and Elizabeth Mary Catherine.
(*This may be Hankins, just mistranscribed)
The fact that the ages and places of birth for Richard in the 1881 census match the family posted, and the presence of the son of E.M.C.Hankins would imply that she is indeed the daughter of Richard, and granddaughter of Richard and Anne.
If you look for this family in the census you may find other relatives with them who could help fill out your tree.
Kirsty
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Thanks Kirsty...getting there slowly..just need help at times...
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In my 1890 Jakeman & Carver's Directory of Herefordshire at Yarkhill under the Commercial listing is a Richard Hankins, farmer and hop grower at Newtown, Yarkhill
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Chillis, This is amazing. I didn't know the Hankins had so many elements to them before now. I didn't even know J H Hankins (Lawyer) son of John George Herbert Hankins(correct me if I've got thst wrong Dalek39) was one of 10 children. So if the census of 1890 shows Richard Hankins- farmer and Hops grower, is this J G H Hankin's Father?
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From what I have understood of your line:
1. Richard Hankins (Anne)
father of
2. John Hankins b.1822 (Hannah M. Herbert)
father of
3. John Herbert Hankins b.1847 (Agnes S.W. Dalrymple) <--- The Lawyer
father of
4. John George Herbert Hankins b.1873 (Mary O.T.A. Hickson)
father of
5. John Annesley Hankins b.1907
I think the Richard Hankins that Chilis found in the 1890 directory is probably the same one I found in the 1881 census, so he would be the brother of number 2 in the list above, ie Richard Hankins b.1819.
The 1871 census (Freecen) has this Richard and family at Newtown Farm, Yarkhill. He is a Farmer of 30 acres aged 51.
Kirsty
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So Kirsty, The Richard- farmer is the brother of John (Born 1822) and their Father is also Richard? I'm either being my usual dense self or this is just confusion caused by the fact they seemed always to re-use family names for offspring.
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You are correct, father and son both named Richard.
Youare not being dense, they are just using the same names AGAIN! You don't seem to have any luck with your family lines. They are all remarkably un-original in their naming of children!
I had wondered if the names of the younger Richard's children might give clues to the names of his grandparents. Going by the census entries they all had middle names.
Kirsty
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Glamis/Kirsty...John Hankins Snr (1822) his son was John Herbert Hankins.(1847).(Lawyer) .John George Herbert Hankins(1873)was the son of John Herbert Hankins Confusing I know, why they didn't call them Jack Harry and Tom..I dont know, would have made it a lot easier on the brain...
I have a Richard Hankins with 218 acres employing 4 men and two boys at Evesley in the 1861 census ? aged 60..with a wife Ann.. Who I think is their father and Mother...
Another Richard Hankins with 216 acres ..sounds familiar..employing ?men and 1 boy..I think this is the son..His wife is Mary, as in Mary C Hankins...am I right?
I know that the brother William also was a farmer, but have not found him on property yet...
And...where is the other son Edward Hankins???..was he a farmer also....?
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John Hankins Snr.(1822) ..his son was John Herbert Hankins (1847) Lawyer. born in England.....his son John George Herbert Hankins (1873) was born in NZ...
I have A Richard Hankins..with 218 acres, employing 4 men and two boys at Eversley in the 1861 census..age 60 with wife Ann...the Father I think of John and Richard Hankins.
Another Richard Hankins...with 216 acres.(sound familiar?) employing ?men and 1 boy..wife Mary..as in Mary C.Hankins...John Hankins (1822) brother...
I know that William Bartholomew..another brother (1818) was also a farmer..but havn't been able to find him on the land, other than a lodger in the 1971 census...
I have not found an Edward Hankins...another brother as yet. what occupation he had...
I would like to know where the Father Richard was born...was it Dymock..Surrey..or Hampshire??
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sorry about the repeats..but things were busy at chat room and I was told to send later..which I did, and saw that I had said much the same as before...did not know it was already sent....
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The message I sent was on the Hankins site..which appears to be rather confusing, as there are two ..the one with just Hankins...dalek. and the one with Hankins 12....Then there is the site Herefordshire on the top of display screen when you bring the Rootschat.com up....maybe we should just have the one Hankins site ..as I'm not sure as to what one I should use.....
Also..re Carson tree...I'll re-direct that to you..as we have a membership with them.....
I have just received a message from them with names and dates on John Hankins and family, which I will look at later, but have family arriving at any moment..and if they are different to what we have then I'll pass that on also...
If you still have any trouble finding that message, just let me know, and I'll resend it....
I'm REALLY looking forward to today, they have just said its going to be 33d,,and we are not in summer yet...oh boy !! I may be off the air for a day or two, as I am minding the "grand dogs" had the grandchildren yesterday for two days...no wonder I get muddled in the head.......Bye for now..
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When you return to the cause, you might look at Genuki for Herefordshire and the section of 'Family Deeds'. There is a covenant dated April 1842 which mentions both a William and Richard HANKINS and they seem to be at Donnington which is about 3 miles from Dymock (you mentioned Dymock earlier, though I have no idea in what context).
Family Deeds
Re: Deed of Covenant dated 10 April 1842
Names mentioned:
Richard HANKINS Gentleman. Former of lands called Taylors before William Hankins and also lands called Allcrofts and Bernards in the parish of Donnington/Ledbury
William HANKINS Gentleman. Formerly of lands called Taylors after Richard Hankins and also lands called Allcrofts in the parish of Donnington/Ledbury
I've finished a weekend of grandchildren sitting myself, hence a bit of light relief looking at other folks research requests...
Chilis
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You all should look at the latest at the thread for Lieut. Col. James'Dalrymple on the Scotland thread. The latest is the stuff for Granny ASWD- Hankins and the Regimental Colours.
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Back to the 'lost' Hannah Maria HANKINS - She didn't return to England and re-marry did she? There's a marriage March Q. 1888 Litchfield 6b 527 of a Hannah Maria HANKINS..
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Thank you very much Chillis...I'll certainly look into that.....actually I thought of that, but didn't know where to look.......
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chillis I doubt that she would return to UK what with all that family of hers, plus grandchildren...if she did re-marry I think it would have been in NZ...but...I dont know...no sign of her in the NZ records other than a Anna Maria..with "unknown"...maybe she was in the Palmerston area where her son was...
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I would like to know..need help....John Hankins father was Richard Hankins..Both John and his father Richard gave their occupations as farmers..Johns address at the time of his marriage was Swindon. Gloucester... William, Johns brother, gave his birthplace as Sugwas, Herefordshire. 1818...also a farmer.. John Hankins birthplace was Bartestree, Herefordshire...1822..
What I need to know..is where Richard Hankins was born...date around 1801 minus 5 years each side... I have looked at his marriage to Ann Hall..Ann Brown.. Ann Cowley...All the records show is Anne... Anne who ?? I would like to trace this family back further...Any information would be great.
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Does anyone know any information who Richard Hankins, born 1801, give or take a couple of years...was married to..Anne..Who?? His children were born at Bartestree, Herefordshire..but I have a notion he came from Gloucestershire. I could be wrong...would love to know...
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Trying to fill in some of the gaps I found some of the christenings of the children of John Hankins and Hannah Maria Herbert.
Ada Elizabeth Hankins June 28th 1849 All Saints Hereford
Amy Mary Hankins 24th June 1850 All Saints Hereford
Alice Herbert Hankins 16th October 1851 All Saints Hereford
In all of these extracted entries the mother is listed as Maria.
Have you tried searching in NZ for her using her middle name?
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Thanks KirstyG..for the dates, I have some but not all...and I have searched all cemetries, even emailed some , and used both names of Maria and Hannah Maria....I did find one with Anna Maria.but record stated death unknown... I received from Chillis that she may have even remarried,and gone back to England.. that is a possibility, but I doubt that she would leave her whole family plus granchildren...I still believe she is in NZ, possible near Palmerston where her eldest son was.but then again I did find a daughter Annie Maria living in Melbourne at one time..maybe I should look there...... I thought of sending off to NZ BMD for that one of "Anna Maria"..but have sent for other members of the family , paid, and been sent someone else's who would have been 140 years old when died....sent that back..but, no, they sent it back to me again...I'm a bit reluctant to send off again until I"m sure...
I came across one Maria who died around 1874 ? that may have been her, but no site of burial..that meant she would have died 10 years after she arrived..... Ive looked up "papers past" and did find some very interesting information, not on her, but on my Ggrandmother...but..back to Hannah Maria...
I am still waiting for information from Christchurch Cemetries, but its been awhile, they may have forgotten...as they say patience is a virtue....
While I have you here Kirsty..Ive noticed there are two Hankins threads, which I find a little confusing..which one should I keep with ? Thanks again...
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Dalek39, where and which is the 2nd Hankins thread you mention? Don't get confused by the one for Lieut.Col. James Dalrymple. It is not a Hankins thread but one that links through ASWD; his Great Grand daughter. She married J H Hankins. This is you're thread for Hankins. The other is mine for Lieut.Col.James. We link through our genetics of Hankins in that your G'Grandmother Alice was J H Hankins sister. J H Hankins is my G'Grandfather.
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Yes..I know all that...I dont go to the ASWD thread...when I "log onto" Rootschat, and I go to the Hankins site..scroll down, there are two Hankins..one with 12 next to it...they are the ones I mention...The one I usually go to is the 12 one... I am getting good help there...I understand that the Dalyrymple side is not my family line...getting through the Hankins side is enough of a challenge.. You m'dear have a bigger challenge getting through both families.....its a wonder you sleep at night, poor thing..anyway...keep on keeping on I say....
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I don't know the other thread you mention though. I am not meaning to 'dis' people but I am very confused as to what you refer. Is this other Hankins site on the Hereford link or another?
As for ASWD- I really feel sorry for her, she was very much in her husband's shadow. He was a well respected member of NZ community and now part of NZ heritage. No one really knew her past connections. She was very much doing the dutyful wife bit except at some point it does seem she got bored....
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Can someone tell me where Sugwas is...I have information its where William Bartholomew Hankins was born...I am trying to piece together the different birth places of this side of the family, so that I may be able to work out where Richard and Anne (parents) came from... There are several places around, such as Dymock..Dormington..Ledbury..but, not knowing the area..its tricky to make the wrong assumption...
I also have info on some deaths I have found A John Hankins, (not the Bartestree one) Hereford city Cemetry ..H12/H.396..apparently married Emily E..? Hankins...She is buried in the same plot.
Richard Hankins..Hereford St.Nicholas..HSN/(045) Monkland.
another Richard Hankins at Monkland..MNK/069..
and..a William Hankins..at Munsley MUN/091.Mary Catherine is in the same plot....
Not sure if these are my line, but the names of Mary Catherine ring bells.
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Dalek39
First of all, Sugwas is Stretton Sugwas by Hereford.
I have gathered rather a lot of info on your HANKINS which I'm in the process of collating. Hopefully, it is tying together all the associated places and John, Richard and William.
I have a marriage on May 30, 1793 at Donnington of a John HANKINS batchelor of Donnington to Sarah ANDREWS spinster of Lugwardine and subsequent baptisms in Dymock - Richard (16 Mar 1794), John (26 Oct 1795), Elizabeth (22 Sept 1797) and Edward (6 May 1799)
Incidentally, the marriage was witnessed by Hester SAUNDERS and William HANKINS.
The interesting thing there was that Sarah ANDREWS hailed from Lugwardine.
Anyway, it will take me a while to get the bits together, but will do my best. I might try to send a personal message so that I can send stuff more directly as attachments.
Chilis
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Chillis...you wont believe this...I just sat down to message you, and..there you are.....I have found Hagley Hall..Lugwardine.....I wondered why John Hankins would put Hagley Hall on the 1861 census if he lived somewhere else...Its a Privite House..and I have the owners names..AFTER John Hankins went to NZ.... What sort of house it is, maybe a little thatched cottage, but I imagine it would have been very nice....and..thank you for your recent information..thats wonderful..I had my thoughts on that...and the "William" confirmed it.....but...we have to make sure I know that.....
The reference on Hagley Hall is in the Hereford Directory and Gazette of Herefordshire. 1876-7...
I have a map of Hereford and surrounding areas..so ..I think they did not go too far from home.....
Anyway...thanks..I appreciate your assistance......
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I have been searching for the info on who lived at Hagley Hall but just can't see any Hankins. My problem I know. The following lists people from 1310.
http://freespace.virgin.net/the.woodies/inhabitants.htm
Is this the Directory you have mentioned? They're not there either http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Lugwardine/Littlebury1876.html
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Evening Dalek39
Where do I start? You know that Herefordshire has the highest number of those with the surname HANKIN/HANKINS in the whole of the United Kingdom. There are dozens of them and all with Richard, William and John for forenames.
Now, I have been looking to work backwards from the point where you stated your known relatives were John HANKINS and Hannah Maria. Is that an ABSOLUTE FACT, as we can start from that point for certain?
If, as you state, they married in 1845 at All Saints, then let's look at them in the 1851 census. We have them in Commercial Road, Hereford, with John apparently an Innkeeper. Hannah, as has already been pointed out, calls herself 'Maria'. Not only have they got the four children (first two born Swindon, Glos. and the other two All Saints, but they have John's brother William (married ? and a 'retired farmer' ? at the age of 32, born Lugwardine. NB: looks like 'Sugwas' on the census, but you can see the 'dine' underneath.
OK. So, let's look at the 1841 census, before John's marriage. He is in Bartestree - Bartestree Court actually - and he is listed as 'Independent'.
His brother William is with him, also Independent and their father Richard, aged about 65, Farmer and also stated to be 'born within the county of Herefordshire'.
I'll carry on a separate posting, as the page jumps up and down. There's probably a simple answer to this, but it'll do for now.
Chilis
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I had wondered where the reference to Hagley Hall came from. Then I found it:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TS18800603.2.7&e=-------10--1----0-all
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Dalek39
We now come to 1861 in Lugwardine, the Hagley Hall bit. John is a Commercial Traveller in Wine & Spirits. That follows, since he was an Innkeeper last time round. He clearly states he was born in Bartestree, so we were right with the 1841 census return. Definitely his father was Richard, the farmer.
I would imagine that John and Hannah were renting Hagley Hall, something that was particularly common in those days and I presume they are relatively alright for finances. Alternatively, there is probably a connection through Hannah Maria and the Herberts which can be looked at. It should be possible to ascertain that later.
In the meantime, John's brother William has left Herefordshire and is in Towcester, Northants where he's lodging at an Inn in the High Street on the night of the census, but his work is as a 'Relieving Officer', so he probably moved about. He's unmarried, which was probably the case in the 1851 census, but difficult to read.
You have said that John and Hannah Maria left Herefordshire for NZ, so I'll carry on checking on father, Richard HANKINS and brother William, as well as sifting through everything else.
It may be that all this should be done through personal messages or outside of the forum, but no doubt someone will point this out if so.
Chilis
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OK so we're dealing with the 'smiths' and 'browns' of Herefordshire.(no offense meant to Smiths and Browns- just the fact that these surnames are amongst the most difficult to look out in terms of genealogy because of the frequency of them) Chillis , you are so clever sorting this lot out. I am J H Hankins' (Lawyer NZ) Great Grand daughter through ASWD. I watch with interest as Dalek39 posted and I never knew until then as my Mother didn't that he was one of 10 children. Thank you.
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Wellfound KirstyG, It still doesn't tally though with the Inhabitants list I found earlier. No Hankins mentioned.
http://freespace.virgin.net/the.woodies/inhabitants.htm
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Thank you Glamis for that...whether they stayed there or rented I dont know, I just found my info on the Hereford Gazette Website, but no mention of their names either, but it was 1876..long after John Hankins left for NZ...I was just interested in whether he lived there or not, and where it was...
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That list seems to be of the inhabitants of Longworth Hall - not Hagley Hall. It only mentions Arthur Hutchinson esq. as living at Hagley Hall, although in the 1876 Littlebury directory he is listed as living at Hagley Park. Perhaps the property at Hagley Park was also known as Hagley Hall?
There are however Herberts living at Longworth House in the 1851 census on that website. No way to know if they are related to Hannah Maria yet though.
edit: I now see you already have this information on the "other" Hankins thread that you started.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,416270.0.html
Chilis mentioned establishing John and Hannah Maria as definitely being your relatives as a starting point for working backwards. To that end I have found the family on the passenger list for the Canterbury in Lyttelton January 1864 arriving in New Zealand. Can you confirm that this is correct?
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Canterbury1864.htm
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Yes Kirsty G...that is correct... I have the printout with their names and children...John was 41..Maria 36. Ship Canterbury left London 21 Sept. 1863..arrived Lyttelton.. Jan 10th 1864. His occupation was Veterinary Surgeon...All 10 children were with them......
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I just looked at the site you gave me, and my source was a different one..but it confirms what I said.....thanks for that....
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There are more records from the mid-1800s for Herefordshire that are not online.
The local council have electoral records and other useful lists of individuals which might include the Hankins.
http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/leisure/archives/2919.asp
There are also old local newspapers and poll books available at Hereford Library.
http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/leisure/libraries/36967.asp
Hagley Hall can be seen on this old OS map, if you have not already found it.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/map.aspx?compid=55120
Choose square 034/SW then zoom in. It is towards the Bartestree end of Hagley, near the crossroads.
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http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukhfhs/index1.html
The Monument Inscription Index lists possible members of your Hankins family, including 2 Richards.
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Thank you KirstyG for that information.....I will study the map well...Its terrific that we can see where our ancestors lived.. I did have a local map, but not like that...
The other information, I will get onto ASAP.... As for the Hereford Council Research data, that will be very helpful to me also.....there is so much online now, and I believe it will get better.....so many people doing this now...and I do have other interesting family lines to follow, but first things first.....The Hankins are a challenge to say the least........thanks again...
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KirstyG...whether you are a Hankins or not, reading the Hereford Journal is quite entertaining..It gives you a good insight to life in that time..and a good laugh....hope you get the time to have a look...thanks for that, and the map of Hagley and areas.....
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KirstyG..I am curious to know what the "lock..unlock" at the bottom of my screen, left side..is...It was not there when I started..have I done something on the computer that I should not have? and how do I unlock it.. does it stop information either coming or going?.. I know that on Ancestry.com they have this system when you go into a site that is not online...ie pay...Can you enlighten me..thanks...
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Hi Dalek39, I hope you don't mind me saying just incase you don't know and haven't seen but if you have - excuse me, anyway have a look at Archives New Zealand , through Archway and enter 'Hankins' There are loads of documents and I believe many are 'our' Hankins. I looked today, haven't seen this before but there again, I am a bit slow.
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Thanks for that...will do..and I'll get back to you when I have read through it...maybe later, as I have my brother coming today, so will be off air for awhile...Dalek
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Dalek39, I think you've done something with the 'locked/unlocked'function because I got the above message first as 'message reply topic Hankins' and then 'locked reply topic Hankins' twice alternating with 'unlocked reply..'twice- 5 times in all. Got all excited thinking there was news.
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A thread can be locked by the original poster when a query has been completed, (that is what that button is normally used for) or moderators may lock threads that have got off topic.
FYI I am not related to the Hankins, I've just been following Gladys's posts and helping when I can. I like a good puzzle :)
I don't know if you have seen these docs in relation to John Herbert Hankins.
http://tinyurl.com/yh4gfwv
http://www.manawatukilwinning.org.nz/general/historic-members
Now I see what you mean about his being a prominant member of society, you weren't kidding.
http://tinyurl.com/ygfot5q
I love the fact that NZ has almost everything online, it makes searching so much easier!
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Re Richard Hankins
I have found a number of records, but it will take a bit of sorting out to find if they belong to your family, and if so which generation.
There is a Will from Herefordshire which could have been his father's, but you would have to prove that in the parish records.
http://www.englandspastforeveryone.org.uk/webdav/assetdetails?asset=851
A link to the deeds mentioned by Chilis
http://www.familydeeds.org/HD40491.php
http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/query/results/?Mode=Search;SearchWords=Herefordshire
An index reference to title deeds (in legalese!)
There is a death notice in The London magazine, or, Gentleman's monthly intelligencer, Volume 39 for a Richard Hankins Esq, which would at least give a date to start searching from.
You may find as you go further back that the spelling varies. I have just seen a reference to a Richard Hankyns/Hankins - in 1455!
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Yes KirstyG, J H Hankins was indeed rather well placed in NZ society and remains as such. I know about his masonic past. I have written to the lodges in NZ where he was a mason and to the one in Hereford which is now combined with Warwickshire to ask if they have any info on JH Hankins and Hankins respectively. They have not responded. I have not been able to find him connected in Scotland as yet. However, I have a thought that this may have been where he spent a year finalising his law studies before returning to NZ. Not sure yet so don't quote me, its just a hunch. Of his Hankins Shield; A lawyer I spoke to very recently had won it himself once. My Mum has many memories she shares of him. She recalls him as a kind gentle man. There is a charicature of him and his partners by Munro. The firm of Fitzherbert Rowe sent me a copy of it. It is quite amusing and portrays him as a wizened old man with a walking stick and from memory ?Pipe. Well found with the Will info, Thanks. Speaking of Wills, J H Hankins' Will says he was born 13/06/1846, Swinburn, Hereford having arrived in NZ 1863. This puts the ship passenger list date out a bit but I don't think that matters. I'd go with the date of the voyage. It also means the age he was said to have been is very slightly wrong. Again it doesn't really matter. What does is that we know its them.
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Right, Dalek39 and Glamis
I have found some bits of information this morning and these confirm the details of the 1841 census, when William and John HANKINS were in the household of Richard HANKINS at Bartestree Court. I had been worried about the ages, as the 1841 ages were approx for adults (rounded up or down) and Richard could conceivably have been 'grandfather'.
Richard died in Bartestree in October 1841. Lucky we caught him in the census earlier in that year! An announcement of his death, nothing else, was in the Hereford Journal.
I found the burial of Ann Maria, Richard's wife and that of a baby son Edward in 1824 and it would appear that Ann Maria died following childbirth. She was aged 44.
I also have a copy of Richard's Will and he names three sons, Richard, John and William, so I have been correct in my assumptions in earlier postings.
The relevant burials won't be on the Monumental Inscriptions lists, as those have not yet been done, so if I have time, I'll take a look in the churchyard tomorrow, taking my wellington boots with me.
Since I shall not be going away until early Monday, I'll keep adding a few bits as time permits.
Chilis
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Good Heavens, Chillis. Thank you for doing this. I hadn't realised you were actually on the origional Hankins' doorstep. I'm nice but slow and or dim- didn't inherit his or his father's brain cells! This is even better so I can pay my respects if you do find them there.
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Yes, Glamis
Im pretty certain that Richard HANKINS (the senior one) has a brother, William buried there also, so I hope to at least have four family members to report on. We'll see. I can pinpoint both their christenings and another generation back in the same area, but I can't find either marrying within Herefordshire.
There are various documents/deeds/mortgages etc. relevant to these people, but it takes time to make sure they are the right HANKINS. Nevertheless, this line seems to have owned several large farms in Herefordshire which can be pinpointed. Be patient....
Chilis
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Thank you Chillis and KirstyG for all that information..have not recieved as much lately.. wonder if its because of this "lock" on my computer, which I did not put on..I received notice from one of the "top" moderators that she had put a lock on to stop confusion...Unfortunately, as I was so new at this, I did not understand how to go about things, so if I caused any "confusion" I apologise..
Glamis...sorry about all the same messages coming in repeated..but, as I found out, my computer was playing up..and sending out the same message 5 times..I did not know this till I received notice from my friends wondering what I was doing...please let me know if this happens again..I will attend to it....
Re the Hankins news, I have all that, except Richards death..I felt that John Hankins may have lived at Hagley Hall, he did..but not the one we thought..At least that gave me a laugh It was Hagley Hall..at Hagley,, and apparently owned by the father, maybe his father.. so thank you so much for that confirmation...
As for this lock..does that stay with me, or can I get rid of it...or does that have to be done at your end....??
And...KirstyG..I looked at all that info you gave me, especially the Herefordshire newspapers, and found that quite interesting.. thanks for that....
So..once again..folks..thanks for all the help...I really do appreciate it.
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Richard Hankins did have a brother..William Bartholomew Hankins, born 1818 Bartestree Hereford.. and another brother Edward Hankins, born 1824 Bartestree herefordshire...and there is an Elizabeth there , but I'm not sure if she was John Hankins daughter or his sister...
And..I have a Anne Hall as mother, born around Dormington , which is close to Bartestree, and married a Richard Hankins, in Dormington in 1809..but the date worries me.. I'm working on that....cheers
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I went to refer to the messages that came in over night from KirstyG and Chillis, and they have all be deleted.....Is this my computer playing up again, have they been removed?
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Oh Dear so have mine. I was only answering about 30 minutes ago. What's happened?
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??? :'( Well..at least its not me....I have had difficulties, as you know, with getting around all this...then my computer went bererk..you must have thought I'd gone mad..and so did all my friends....what can I say...anyway, no wonder the administrator put a lock on me...I hope that's not
permanent...anyway..how is your investigation going? I'm trying to find Richard Hankins wife Anne...
Anne who? As I said in my last message, I found one at Dormington, dont know if thats the one, but it is close to where they came from...only thing is the dates are out, but we all know that can happen...I had one rellie who was christened before she was born...if you took notice of the records... so, best of luck I say...to us..we need it all....
I hope Chillis received my thanks before things "cut out"for his part in information he gave us.. if not, hopefully he'll see this....
Well its 9.09am here..the day starts..and by the look at the weather report we are in for a warm week..mid 30's..Sydney had it 38d on Monday ( which is very rare for Sydney)
Re John Hankins living at Hagley Hall...wasn't far wrong..he did, but not "The Hagley Hall" I'm still laughing at that...but there was one at Hagley in Lugwardine..Herefordshire.....but I dont think its there now... OK thats it for now.. till more news comes in....... ;D
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Hi, I don't think the lock is a problem, otherwise we would not be talking now. Anyway, John Hankins my Great Grandfather, seems to have fingers in many pies. Political, Land,Law, Farming, Livestock, Masonry, NZ social development, wheeling and dealing. He was a clever man. I still can't find this Scotland connection though. Will keep looking. What did your Great Granny Alice get up to? She was his sister- it's in the genes.
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It is very difficult to follow this thread and recent postings by you Dalek39 seem to be referring to different generations from that to which I referred in my Replies #56 and #58.
Anyway, before I give up this evening, I have just transcribed the Will of Richard HANKINS of Bartestree Court who died just after we'd found him in the 1841 census where William and Richard (both Independent) were listed in his household.
So, basically Richard left a lot of property dividing it between sons William (Barthlomew), Richard and John (husband of Hannah Maria). Richard got land and premises in the occupation of John PITT in Weston Beggard and also cottages, land etc, in New Town, Yarkhill in the occupation of Thomas CORBETT.
John got all the messuages or tenements, land and premises that were on/in Hagley, Lugwardine 'bought and purchased by my brother, William' as well as getting premises situated at the Blackpole in Bartestree.
All other messuages or tenements, buildings, farms lands being in several townships including Mordiford and elsewhere in the county, etc.etc. went to William.
So, that's all for this evening.
Chilis
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Chillis, I too am finding thsi equally difficult to follow.I now have no idea which Richard, John and William you are referring to. I assume it is the Grandfather and Uncles of J H Hankins(Lawyer NZ) and Dalek 39's Great Grandmother; Alice, J H Hankins' sister?Sorry if I'm completely wrong and off pat.Direction required if this is so. Anyway, I have to say Thank you for your interest and efforts because they astound me. I hope your holiday is fun.
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Chillis / Glamis.... to sort things out ...and I too get confused at times, as you both well know...but....
There was No 1..Richard Hankins (father of)
William Bartholomew......John...Richard...and Edward.....all born in Bartestree...
I know its difficult with all the names blending..but Richard (father) had the land in Hereford, from what I gather..and, as you said Chillis, left it to his sons.........
What happened to Edward I dont know as yet....Richard stayed as a farmer and married Mary C Hankins..from Bromyard...
John Hankins who went to NZ.....with the whole family........his eldest son, John Herbert Hankins who was the lawyer....who had a son...John George Herbert Hankins.......that is where the confusion appears... They should have called each son..Tom Dick and Harry..would have made it a lot clearer....
I hope this has sorted things out....sorry Chillis if you were confused..but its not easy , with all the names being the same.....I'm sorry...blame the Hankins.....they started it....
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Glamis...I noticed in your reply #64..you said that John Hankins was your Great Grandfather..Did you mean John the Lawyer, John Herbert Hankins ??
How about...to stop all this confusion, we refer to the Hankins...as...Grandad Hankins (Richard)
John..NZ
John Herbert. Lawyer.
John George..Accountant ...instead of Hankins after each name....so then we know who we are talking about... with all the "Johns" no wonder we get confused.......just a thought....
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Sorry Chillis...that you were confused...we all are....but thanks for all that info...great work..
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Glamis...dont know much about great grannie Hankins, except she was deserted by hubby with 7 kids...I believe John Lawyer helped her out somewhat....being his sister....all I have is one photo of her, with her daughter Florence Herbert..and she looked 85 in that..She died at 90..and is buried at Ruru Lawn cemetry in CH.CH. New Zealand..Will do some research on her when I get this lot sorted out..Our parents never said much about family in those days, as you know...left it all to us...but...its fun, apart from the confusion that goes with it...but, we'll manage that I'm sure....Its all good experience.....in sending some mad....including me...bye for now...
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Yes Dalek39, John Herbert Hankins (Lawyer) is my Great Grandfather, his son John George Herbert is my Grandfather who married Mary Olive Te Akau Hickson. Your poor Grannie Alice being left with 7 children to care for.
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Overcast, drizzly, 10C here, but still I paddled out in my wellies on the HANKINS trail.
Dalek39, and Glamis too, you'd better get over here QUICK! Not that I know where you are, Glamis.
Exciting news. Got all three generations in Weston Beggard churchyard. I've got some lovely photos of all the memorials, the earliest ones (1791 ....) being three huge stone tombstones close to the church entrance. These stones are losing their faces and their lead lettering is being torn away by ivy growth. They are in desperate need of attention!
I have extracted what I can by way of epitaphs, but will need to trace over the flaked surfaces to get impressions of what is left. Even so, I've got enough information to assume that 'everyone' is here.
Time I think for you to send me a PM with your e-mail addresses if you want to see these pics...
Chilis
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Well found, I'm so pleased and Thank you Chillis. Thanks so very much for braving the weather and for your efforts into this.Will PM info once I've worked out how to.I've worked out how to but the website is jammed and the message won't send. Will try again later when it's less busy. Wonder if the cold, wet, dark evening has got something to do with it?
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Ah, so you are over here, Glamis
Chilis (appropriately enough)
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Chillis Glamis...I'm back on board...the last thing I want to do is "stuff up" again...as I said...too early in the morning for me, but the sons dogs woke me up....anyway, sounds like you need some warm weather..we are having it in the mid 30's for the next week..then..it will get hotter...no no...
Anyway, just in case you didn't get my reply...let me know and I'll resend..OK? ;D
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Glamis...you may be wondering whats happened by my last message..I accidently deactivated the message..but, all's well..I corrected that....silly me...as I said...I'm up very early this morning, I did not need that...grandogs woke me..I'm minding them for the weekend....
I wish I could be over there to see the graves, and clean them up, but, cant be...a photo would be lovely to keep....I thanked Chillis very much for his effort... :)
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Indeed, I am on English soil.
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Glamis...Would love to be there to explore the Hankins history...but, I must say doing this, I feel connected......getting to know the "old folk" already....just tuned in, been walking the grandogs, and its hot outside, so I'll do some of research to cool off... ;D
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You make me envious, its frilly chilly here. Cold, been wet and got dark far too early. Chilis has done some absolutely fantastic stuff for us today in the rain and cold. Our 'olds' places of rest are so grand- be reverent in their memories. I do mean grand. Have you got the pics?
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Yes..they are wonderful...nothing like that here..will treasure them...cant wait to show the family...and Chillis is a sweetie doing that...for us....many thanks Chillis... :)
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I'm a bit closer than you. It is now another 'to do' list on top of going to Glasgow to see the relies bits and pieces for Lieut. Col. James Dalrymple and his son GWD's lair at Sighthill cemetery and the Regimental colours from General Sir Samuel Dalrymple at Glasgow Cathedral. My son is in Warwickshire doing farriery, Hereford isn't that far from there. In fact we went to Hereford for one of his interviews- Warwick worked best. I find this quite spooky. Richard Hankins as a vet, they lived and worked as farmers in Hereford. J H Hankins(Lawyer) was born 13/06/1847, My ex father in-law's birthday was 13/06/1934 and JH Hankins' relative Richard Hankins died 13/06/1807, Ledbury, Hereford Probate 11/1463. It is too much to take in even more so that my own daughter was due 27/06 and JH Hankins died 27/06/1928. Family cycles-biorhythms. I don't know.
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Its a hot night tonight...32 and its 9.45pm...we are expecting a week of mid 30's..terrific !! not.
Now, re our Hankins... Chillis sent some info on Alice Hankins line, and there was a Richard Hankins..born 1772 in Weston Beggard..Hereford..wife Mary..who I found on Family search was Mary Dafy..born1735 Weston Beggard...died in 1798..same place...
I also have a Richard Hankins..born 1794 Donnington, Hereford.. parents John Hankins and Sarah Andrews....and...found out Weston Beggard and Donnington are the same place..Is this right? and if so, who's who...The one at Beggard that Chillis gave me is right, as it tallies with the gravestones on the photos' she sent.....Where does Donnington dates fit in.? Maybe its the heat..but.. ??? anyway, as Chillis said that there were hundreds of Hankins in Hereford...doesn't make it easy does it? No doubt it will sort itself out.....
Did you get the newspaper cuttings OK ?..just my computer has been playing up big time, and sending repeated messages...which I did not know was happening till friends thought I'd gone mad...so, my apologies if that happened to you. Think its fixed now......I hope..... Cheers.. :-[ :)
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Dalek39, Donnington is in Warwickshire. I think the transcript you've found should read Dormington but I stand to be corrected as my own knowledge of English geography is pretty poor- didn't grow up here after all. Anyway, have a look at this because it may help to show you the relationship of the villages which seemed to make up the parish of Weston Beggard.
http://www.british-towns.net/en/level_4_display.asp?GetL3=595
Yarkhill, Bartstree and Dormington all show in a triangle. The next link is about Yarkhill. http://www.yarkhillchurch.org.uk/Parish.htm I have only found the following for Bartstree so far, it appears an archaelogical dig found nothing in 2004- this is a requirement of UK planning for historical and ancient buildings being redeveloped. Scroll down to Hereford. http://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/aip/gaz2004/ewm.pdf
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glamis...Thanks for that..and the "other info" on John (Lawyer) What a family...now that we have found William and Mary, cant very well call Richard, father of John (Bartestree) grandad anymore, can we..he"ll have to be refered to as (Richard Esq) William is now grandad...this all saves MY confusion if I know who I'm talking about... if you dont think that a good idea..say so, I wont mind..
Now.... I have a mystery..cant find Hannah Maria Hankins, mother of John Herbert Hankins, and all the other children...she's gone off the face of the earth..cant find her anywhere in NZ..dead or alive...I must say, being the mother of John Herbert..the well known Laywer, you'd think she would have a mention somewhere..Maybe she left NZ..re married..I dont know, but there is no death notice of her that I can find..and I have searched all NZ cemetries, but, as I well know, that doesn't mean that she's not there..
I have a greatgrandfather on another side, who was a Scot from Inverness..(now thats going to be interesting to follow that up at a later date..headache?)
But back to our Hannah..Ive looked under Maria, as she like to be called apparently..no go...so..if you have any info on her let me know...its a mystery....
Melbourne could be a clue, as there are a lot here, but, thats a long shot...but I'll look...
Anyway...I have just found out that my dear hubby has got me Family Tree, as Chillis suggested, so I will get that organised ASAP.........You should see my file, just on the Hankins alone...like the "Doomsday Book"..so a disc would be great......chat later..another hot day ahead for us, send some rain over please..would be welcome.... 8) :)
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Now.... I have a mystery..cant find Hannah Maria Hankins, mother of John Herbert Hankins, and all the other children...she's gone off the face of the earth..cant find her anywhere in NZ..dead or alive...I must say, being the mother of John Herbert..the well known Laywer, you'd think she would have a mention somewhere..Maybe she left NZ..re married..I dont know, but there is no death notice of her that I can find..and I have searched all NZ cemetries, but, as I well know, that doesn't mean that she's not there..
But back to our Hannah..Ive looked under Maria, as she like to be called apparently..no go...so..if you have any info on her let me know...its a mystery....
Have you considered the following from the New Zealand Death index ?
1873 - HANKINS - Anna Maria
http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/
Lu
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Thanks Lucy 2..been there, done that..it states her name and N/R..and thats all...I thought it may be a child..as in stillborn.... Its hard to think that a mother of 10 children vanishes without a trace...I tried NZ divorces. in case she remarried.. all the cemetries...nothing there......the records dept. are in the stage of re-vamping their records, and so much is "off air" at present..
Will keep searching, she lived, and died..I know that..so ..will keep looking.....and..thanks for your interest..much appreciated....Dalek.
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Thanks Lucy 2..been there, done that..it states her name and N/R..and thats all...I thought it may be a child..as in stillborn.... Its hard to think that a mother of 10 children vanishes without a trace...I tried NZ divorces. in case she remarried.. all the cemetries...nothing there......the records dept. are in the stage of re-vamping their records, and so much is "off air" at present..
Well Dalek ... I'm not sure if your reference re: "the records dept. ....... and so much is "off air" at present", relates to the NZ BDM Historical indexes. ???
I'm in New Zealand and have a more than reasonable grasp of what is, and what is not, available.
Just let me say, that many of the early NZ death records for adults, have N/R recorded in place of "age". :D
[It is not unusual either to see "Hannah", mistranscribed as "Anna"].
Lu
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Thanks Lucy2... I must say..been having trouble getting onto certain sites, found that my computer was playing up...hopefully its fixed now....I will try again..if that is right it seems she died not long after she settled in NZ....but where is she buried? no record that I can find...with her well known husband you would think there would be some mention of her.. ??? either by him or her children..Looked in obituaries, nothing there, but that doesn't mean anything either...I have John Hankins death certificate, he died in Christchurch in 1911...you would think if they were still together she would be near him...
My mothers family came from Christchurch NZ..( never got there.).I was at school in Auckland ..born in Aussie...and its very warm here at present..got to 35d today, and more this week of the same. looks like being a hot summer again this year... I'll get onto NZ BDM.. and check again...thanks again. Dalek. :)
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..Lucy2..
The Anna Maria 1873/1470 on the BDM NZ (death record) with N/R next to it..may or may not be her...and I want to get a certificate, but without knowing its her, dont want to send off, and pay for the wrong one.. as happened before... with my ggreat grandfather, who would have been 140 years old when he died, even though I gave them his DOB...sent it back only to receive the same one back again.....so, you can understand my caution....
I'll try other avenues first, and let you know the outcome... 8) :) (Its a hot day today, 35d.and same for the rest of the week..
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Glamis...have found out some more on the Hankins (NZ).. found a death notice for a William Herbert Hankins....2nd June.1880...aged 23 yrs. 3rd youngest son of John Hankins..no mention of Hannah Maria as his mother, strange?..
Also, A William Herbert Hankins married Elizabeth Elias ? (NZ BMD) 1914/9195...obviously another one..but one I have not heard of....and.....under the heading of "Runaway Husband" in Papers Past NZ Grey River Argus.. May 10 1882...involving a Mrs.Maria Hankins, ...Who appears to have re married a Edward Hankins..1884/2554...NZ BDM record....was he Williams brother . ??? ::) and...a death notice in NZ paper, 28th Apr.1911..John Hankins, late of Hagley Hall...Hereford..father of J.H.Hankins..aged 89 yrs...No mention of Hannah Maria..which makes me wonder, did she re-marry,, as there is also a record of Hannah Maria DONOVAN...1867/2842...NZ BDM...only a thought, ..but..as we cant find her, one wonders..as Alice Hankins, (her daughter) married a John Henry Donovan..so there was a connection.
Just seems strange that there is NO mention of her by the family in articles I have seen...???and until we get a death notice, we dont know...... ::) ??? :)
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Hi Dalek
Yes I'd also found the death of "William Herbert" 1880 and was about to mention it to you.
Was interested to know whether you had details of this son's burial place ... as he may well be buried with his mother "Hannah Maria". ?
It was actually fairly common in those days, (in New Zealand newspapers) for only a father's name to be given in death notices of a child - especially in notices where the father's place of origin was also included. (You know .. it was the era where "mothers/women in general, didn't really rate" ! ;D)
Lu
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..Lucy2..
The Anna Maria 1873/1470 on the BDM NZ (death record) with N/R next to it..may or may not be her...and I want to get a certificate, but without knowing its her, dont want to send off, and pay for the wrong one..
Dalek ... I'll check the NZ Death index microfiche ... from which I can establish, where this death (1873) was registered. (I'm at the library later in the week).
Even in the event that it was registered at Christchurch, the actual death record may not be worth purchasing, this is because there was so little information recorded for deaths, up until around 1876. It won't confirm her spouse's name - though at best he may have been the informant. It may not record actual burial place, and it certainly won't include place of birth or her parent's names.
Whilst you say you've checked all the cemetery records available, it needs to be remembered, that a great many are not available online. This particularly applies to Christchurch (Canterbury area) ... there are numerous little graveyards scattered all over the place - and churchyard plots as well. (Many of my lot were from Christchurch too, and it took a while finding them).
Lu
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Lucy 2
Thank you soooo much for all that. I do appreciate it...wish I were there to see where my grandparents are buried..at Bromley Cemetry Ch.Ch.. in the same plot...as often happens with families....so that is on the cards.. I looked at Palmerston North, where her eldest son was buried, thought there may have been a family plot...anyway, she'll turn up somewhere....sometime...
I realize there are a lot of old pioneer cemetries, where the records get lost, and that makes it very difficult..and time consuming...
Her maiden name being a Herbert, makes me dread looking in that line...as many Herberts as are Hankins. :P ::) but, that will come at a later stage...If I dont go gar-gar in the meantime.......Take care...Dalek :)
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Also, A William Herbert Hankins married Elizabeth Elias ? (NZ BMD) 1914/9195...obviously another one..but one I have not heard of....
This is Uncle Ford, son of J H Hankins and Agnes Sophia Weymss Hankins. He and Elizabeth had Ian, Gwynnedd and June- my Mother's cousins. Uncle Ford died of throat cancer.
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Glamis...my grandfather...Henry Alfred Donovan, who was Alice Hankins eldest son, also died of cancer, maybe throat cancer..he was 47 at time of death, had a Tobacconist and Hairdresser shop in Ch.Ch.
Maybe they were all smokers....some coincidence, eh? That was too early, my mother was only 10 at the time...
Time to sign off ..been a long HOT day..so will chat later..maybe will have some more news... :)
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there does seem to be a frequency of throat cancers dotted through this family. Anyway, it's a cold grey damp Tuesday at 1055am here. We've got a long damp day ahead. Could do with some of your heat but only a little not the extremes you get. Thanks for all of this.
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Glamis.. Maybe I can search here in Aus, at some cemetries for ASWD..mother , she may be here somewhere, as there are cemetries that are not on the map so to speak...If you want, give me her name and I'll see what I can do.. Dalek
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Sarah Dalrymple or WeymssDalrymple nee Thomson- see threads on the Aus/NZ sites for 'Sarah Dalrymple nee Thomson What has happened to her?'. Thanks
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OK..Will do what I can.....hope this doesn't come six times, think this computer will be going to "God"..sorry if they did... :-[ :)
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glamis....found something very interesting...."Meeting of Creditors"
Before the Registra at his Chambers. Re. John Hankins, snr..for proof of claims and appointments of trustee and super-visors, at 11 o"clock to-morrow...Self....
What does THAT mean ? I think thats John Hankins, father of John Herbert..dont you, and wonder what its about, him representing himself...think JH lawyer would have been too young then to be qualified...Did he have debts ? was it an estate .? this dates 6 Nov.1868...Papers past "Star" page3 ??? I'll stay 8)
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Well found, sadly to me (who knows little) it does seem like a creditors 'call in'. Look for more to it, there has to be more in the news about it.
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glamis....found something very interesting...."Meeting of Creditors"
Before the Registra at his Chambers. Re. John Hankins, snr..for proof of claims and appointments of trustee and super-visors, at 11 o"clock to-morrow...Self....
What does THAT mean ? I think thats John Hankins, father of John Herbert..dont you, and wonder what its about, him representing himself...think JH lawyer would have been too young then to be qualified...Did he have debts ? was it an estate .? this dates 6 Nov.1868...Papers past "Star" page3 ??? I'll stay 8)
Hi again Dalek
Yes, this relates to the Bankrupt estate of John HANKINS, Veterinary Surgeon :
Further detail can be found > >
"Star" - 7 November 1868 - "Local and General" :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
Lu
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Well found Lucy2-Thanks. Oh Poor Great Great Grandfather John. Look at who the creditors are /were. That may a very telling tale.(hunch-that's all)
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Hi Dalek
A suggestion ... if I may ? :)
Our PapersPast website in New Zealand, is a wonderful asset ! However, you shouldn't expect that by simply searching on a forename/surname, that you will find everything related to that person.
Often information turns up in the most obscure places - and so it is very worthwhile, to "cast a wider net" ... even to the extent of searching all the available newspapers, on the surname alone ! (Unless of course the name is SMITH :D) Sure it's time consuming, but you may be surprised at what you find.
And especially, don't overlook items which appear under "Advertisements" - these can be amongst the most informative ... they include all sorts of notices and important dates, which can go a long way towards building up to a "bigger picture" of an ancestors life. ;)
Incidentally, here's one you might like - "3-for-the-price-of-one" ... John and John Herbert HANKINS both feature.
"Star" - 29 July 1868 - "P3 Advertisements Column 2"
Lu
... in Aotearoa
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Dalek ... Glamis
Just adding these further references from PapersPast re: John HANKINS (Bankruptcy) :
"Star" - 23 November 1868 - "Law Notices"
"Star" - 24 November 1868 - "Supreme Court"
"Star" - 7 January 1869 - "Supreme Court"
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
There are quite possibly other articles/items ? (I've only done a very quick search).
Lu
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Lucy2- Thanks yes, I have discovered this. I found GSWD's Death Duty Tax of $700 dollars on Paperspast and other things. I'll look again. Please note the reason I have posted on NZ/Aus sites is because the access to resources with youis seeming to yield much more than for us here. Thansk you, I will look at this.Dalek39 should too.
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Dalek ... Glamis
Hmmm ... I've just checked Archives New Zealand's website to see if the Bankruptcy file for John HANKINS was available.
I can't see it listed. It maybe worthwhile though emailing Archives NZ at their Christchurch Office to see if they have this record from 1868 - 1869. (I'm fairly sure that they have an in-house index that could also be checked ?)
http://www.archives.govt.nz/
Lu
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...I have John Hankins death certificate, he died in Christchurch in 1911...
Hi Dalek
RE: Search for "Hannah Maria" :
Can you tell me please, from the death cert. above, where John HANKINS was buried in Chrischurch ?
Lu
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Blimming clever Lucy2- You see this is what Imean, unless you know and understand the way a country stores info, you'd never find out. THanks for this. I'll have to ask Dalek to find out though because of proximity and I have work after tomorrow.
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Lucy2.. Glamis..Have just come onboard...will have to digest all this info..so will be back soon.
Haere ra ;) :)
Oh, before I go...John Hankins death.. I certainly can Lucy2..it was ...28 Apr 1911.. at Papanui Cemetry, which , I believe is not administered by Christchurch City Council anymore. but is now St Pauls Anglican Church Cemetry... located at 1 Harewood Road. Papanui ...
And..another..by the way...Glamis..found a John Hankins, from Gun and Davey Legal Team..Adelaide South Australia... may or may not be related..but thought I'd mention it incase you know him... seems funny he's a "Legal Eagle" as well.... If you need more info on him, I have a printout.. OK..off now to go looking and searching. :D
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glamis...found a Sarah Dalrymple in Melbourne Electrol Rolls..also..Sarah in the Scottish census..1841.51.61.1901....Didn't you say there were Scottish connections? Have a look at Ancestry.com.au....its there.... I'll check the Melbourne one...
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If you have found her on the Scottish census for 1861 & 1901 this is really amazing. We found her with her husband in London on 1861 but nothing after that. In the last few hours JM has found an entry for a death in Melbourne 1897 but I am in the process of finding out if it's her. If it isn't from your finding it may be she was back in Scotland. Scotland's people website has never shown her up though. Thanks Dalek39.
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She was on the Melbourne census in 1903 - 1924, if its her..I am going to try and find out, as she seemed to move about , voted in different districts...
I am still having trouble with finding Hannah Maria Hankins.. its frustrating that she is nowhere to be seen... I have had two experienced people in Aust, searching also, and they can"t find her...but..never give up I say... she lived...she died...she left records.....somewhere...
I wonder if she and John Hankins divorced,..I went through some records here incase she came over, but there were too many, would have been on this site all day...no luck there....If they did divorce.. this may be why he was in the bankruptcy courts...he would have been left a large sum after his father died, and he was a Vet... or....maybe, as Lucy2 said, she may be buried with one of her children, but, that can be found, will work on that too....I have found this death
record in NZ BDM of a Anna Maria..N/R.. worry about getting that incase its not her...but, in the end, if we can't find her it may be the only way of knowing, one way or the other... think I'll check the cemetries again, may have missed something... If you think this is hard, wait till we search the Herberts... ::) there are just as many of them, everywhere..... chat later ;D
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Glamis...what site were you on to get Sarah 's no. 1897/7024.at St.Kilda Cemetry..I got onto St Kilda.. and there were no records found...for me.. ???
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Look at the site on Aus for the thread for 'Sarah Dalrymple nee Thomson, what ever happened to her?'
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OK will do... 'Found the death of William Herbert Hankins, died falling off a horse in the Grand National (NZ) and died of a fractured skull..An inquest was held.....I think he was the son of John and Hannah Maria Hankins... 3rd youngest child... He did not die instantly apparently, lasted a couple of days..very sad ..They had a lot of tragedy in that family... :(
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MOI..GLAMIS..will do what I can re Sarah..found her at Balaclava, Henty and other places..from 1903 - 1936..on Ancestry voter lists... also found a site ancestry plus..Descendant Register...not sure how that goes, maybe you may be more switched on with the computer than me....but, I'll get back to you later.. After this I think I'll write a book..call it "The Hankins saga"....make a best seller I think. ::) ;D
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:(IVE FOUND HER......Hannah Maria Hankins...Death Notice...West Coast Times..17 May 1873..
The Funeral of the late Mrs.John Hankins Snr. will move from her late residence, Sale Street, this afternoon, at half past 3 o"clock...
Sinclair and Jack....Undertakers..... ( in Papers Past NZ.) The search is over...
Does anyone know what paper the West Coast is? is it in CH.Ch.or Wellington??
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GLAMIS...two "hits" in one day... ;D
I have some names and places in Melbourne off the electoral roll....for the Dalrymples..
1903..Sarah , home duties.. Robert Dalrymple Horace Street malvern..driver..
Henry William Dalrymple.. Christina Martha..at Tooronga Road.Malvern Melbourne
1914.. Alexander..driver.. David ..Labourer..Christina Martha..Home duties.. Henry William..timber stacker..Robert..Labourer.. Sarah..home duties.. ALL at Tooringa Road Malvern..Melbourne.
.....
1919..Robert and sarah at Horace Street, along with Mary Louisa and David and Christina Martha.
1924..David Robert and sarah and Winnie (boxmaker) all at 325 High Street Malvern..
Henry William and Mary Louisa all at Horace Street. (no number) name of house "Korong".. William is a tramdriver.
1930. 315 High Street Malvern..Melbourne.. Alexanda and Rita.
David ,Robert and Sarah at 235 High Street Malvern..
1936..325 High Street..David Robert and Sarah..
Alexander and Rita were at 22 Wills Street...
Now I have addresses, I will try and get a photo of the house, IF its still there..Its very near where my daughter lives.. Hope all this helps..... :)
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Sorry..should have put this on the "Aussie" thread..but, after reading it, do I have the right one ? (Sarah) if not..delete.. Back to the Hankins thread for me. :-[ ;D
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:(IVE FOUND HER......Hannah Maria Hankins...Death Notice...West Coast Times..17 May 1873..
The Funeral of the late Mrs.John Hankins Snr. will move from her late residence, Sale Street, this afternoon, at half past 3 o"clock...
Sinclair and Jack....Undertakers..... ( in Papers Past NZ.) The search is over...
Does anyone know what paper the West Coast is? is it in CH.Ch.or Wellington??
Dalek
Was just about to suggest you check the NZ newspapers for Hannah.
I've just got in from the library ... doing a look-up for this death :
1873 - Indexed as both "Anna Maria" and "Hannah" HANKINS
.... registered at Hokitika.
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The West Coast is the West Coast of the South Island (also known as Westland - especially in the early days.)
Next time you are on the PapersPast website, have a look at the map which is featured - it shows the different regions of NZ. Also each of the newspapers has a little of its history recorded which you might find helpful.
Lu
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Very well found re: Hannah Maria. I don't think these Dalrymples are mine though, not sure. JGWD's first wife had 3-4 children by him so they may be those descendants. I haven't got to that bit yet. Still stuck on Great Grandmother Sarah.- Thanks anyway. My Sarah seems to have died at 26 Camden Street, Melbourne. I don't know if thats till stands. Would you know?
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There is still a house at 26 Camden Street, whether it is the same house I don't know.
Use google maps streetview and you can see it right now!
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps
Just zoom in on the map then drag the little yellow man onto the street you want to see, then click and drag to look around.
edit: Sorry, this should really have been posted on the Australia board ::) too much crossing over, getting me all confused!
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Well Thank you KirstyG. Its sort of spooky to see it. I agree there are too many cross overs. Can you copy and paste to the Aus board so they can see? I will if you'd rather.
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Thanks Lucy2..have already sent off for a death certificate....she was 45, by the dates, when she died..sad.
Also..I know the North Island..lived there for some time..went to school there, Auckland..but never got to the south at all, unfortunately, where my mother was born...maybe some day ??
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Glamis... When I go up that way, if it is still there, will take a photo.. but will you all bail me out if I get arrested for breaching the privacy act? the owners may wonder what I am doing....selling their house...
AND..me too...I agree, no more cross-overs.. my brain hurts.
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Hi Dalek
Here's the cemetery record for Hannah Maria HANKINS :
HARKINS (sic) - Hannah Maria
aged 44 years
Interment Date : 17/01/1873*
[* Note: Month has been given incorrectly.]
Cemetery : Hokitika
Grave: Plot 2509 Block 174
Denomination : Roman Catholic
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http://www.westlanddc.govt.nz/index.cfm/0,291,html
["Cemetery catalogue" ]
(Unfortunately this particular cemetery database contains numerous typographical errors. Even my own g-gran is indexed under a weird spelling of her surname. :D )
Lu
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Brilliant you've all recognised these burials and the errors. Well Found. Peace to them
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Glamis................now we can move on.....to the next stage...whats in store there. ::) :)
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Sort out the 'chilblains'- us who comes from who etc.
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Chilblains ??? dont quite follow... :)
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Is Colwall Hereford near Weston Beggard ? I have a William Hankins and Mary Daffy married in 1755 in Colwell. Hereford.....date fits in ..just wondering at this stage... ???
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Here we go again...... ::) I have William Hankins,.. father of Richard Hankins,.. who is father of John Hankins Bartestree. now.. William is married to Mary ?.. William died in 5 oct 1833..Weston Beggard..late of The Pidgeon House..(these dates are on the photo of the tombs in church grounds)
he was 65 years when he died..take that off death date, and we have born in 1768...now...
Mary, his wife ? born in 1735..Weston Beggard..died on 17 Apr. 1798 aged 63..which makes her born in 1735...which..by this makes him 33 yrs older than her....am I right?? The tomb of Mary confirms her dates as mine....what?, who? and How? Help...!!
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No, its the other way around, she was 33 years older than him. It wasn't uncommon. Well spotted though. However did you enhance those images_ Good work though.
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Silly me...I can see that now.. I was always terrific at maths... just you expect that the man is older than the woman... ::)
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William and Mary, parents of Richard Hankins...b..1772 Weston Beggard, Hereford.( late of pigeon House)...Mary b 1735..? ..died.17 Apr 1798, Weston Beggard. 63Y....William b.1768....d..1833..65Y Weston Beggard.
I have a Mary Dafy.b 1735, Colwell , Hereford... married to William Hankins.... could she be the Mary, mother of Richard.. ???
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I'm back!
Well, I see as always one and all are rushing headlong into the abyss. I think I'd forget about the Colwall, Donnington, Ledbury, Dymock ones for the timebeing and concentrate on the Weston Beggard, Bartestree, Lugwardine, Yarkhill line.
There are deeds and mortgage documents and probably a lot more relating to William HANKINS, Pigeon House, Weston Beggard in the local Records Office which should be looked at first. There is also a further burial registered in 1820 in Weston Beggard of a Richard HANKINS of Bartestree aged 85. Perhaps the tombstones will yield more information when more closely examined. I do hope so.
Anyway, delighted to learn that Hannah Maria has at last been tracked down.
Chilis
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I think that's a good line of enquiry to focus on Chilis- welcome back too by the way.
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Yes.Chillis.....welcome back...you were missed....
Thanks for that info... I have put the others aside, as it only adds to the confusion.....I did find a death notice for William Herbert Hankins, son of John and Hannah, died while riding in the Grand National (NZ) and suffered head injuries....His inquest mentioned a fractured skull and he died a few days after the accident. He is buried at Papanui Cemetry NZ :(
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Hi Chillis...
I've found some dates re Hankins... these were on the tombs you sent me..
Richard Hankins..died..25 Dec..1890...71y
Mary C.Hankins " 17 Mar. 1885...58y
William Hankins Esq. 5 Oct. 1833..65y 8) :)
William Hankins Esq..his wife was Mary ? had a daughter..Elizabeth..died 1791..aged 17?
William Hankins Esq. ..his parents were also William and Mary..but I cant find a date for them, and I have been a good girl, and kept away from...Ledbury, Colwell, Donnington and Dymock....I saw nothing for William and Mary Esq. marriage.....where??
I think we are just about at an end with the Hankins, though.. I would love to trace them back further...but....??....do you suggest that we open another thread for, say.....the Herberts..Hannah Maria's family...or do we stay with this for the moment....
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Chillis..or Lucy lu..2..whatever...
I dont remember who asked me to get..Family Tree maker...but I have...and its on there....may need a bit of sorting..as we are new at this game..but..I will get the "hang" of it, or drive you mad...sorry if I do....just my wonderful computer know-how....I may get 6 stars yet.... ::) :)
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Dalek39
It had been my plan to get to the Weston Beggard churchyard to see what else could be gleaned from the tombstones, as well as to cut the main branches of the ivy that is now pulling the stones apart and the facings off. However, the weather here has been quite appalling since my return - high winds and heavy showers, so not conducive to that sort of activity.
Also, since the churchyard is 20 miles from me, I hoped to get back into the Record Office before it closes for a fortnight's stocktaking, but I might not make it before the closure.
Glad you've stopped widening the search for HANKINS too far and am sure there's plenty to find out about the ones we are looking at, after all, most people would be pleased to learn all they could about the social history attached to say 250 years of their family.
I suggested Family Tree Maker as a way of presenting all the information you have gathered and keeping it available at a click of the mouse. I had forgotten that nowadays all these programs come with stuff attached, so make the most of it, I suppose.
Will post again only when I've got some more information.
Chilis
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Hello Dalek39, Chilis- everyone else, Thank you so very much for all of this and to Chilis for thinking of the gravestones. I'm grateful for your help and the fact you've gone 'the extra mile' - clearing the graves and making them presentable is so respectful. I wish I was nearer to do that but I have it as a visit on my 'to do' list
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chillis.........I too thank you very much for your effort in what you are doing for us..you have gone beyond the bounds..and..everyone else who have been such a help.. that is so much appreciated...Like Glamis, I am quite a distance away and would dearly love to be there to help...but, unfortunately, that is not to be...so...if there is anything I can do this end within my power, I will do.
Re the Hankins.. (they will be forever remembered, not only by Glamis and I ) but by the ones who have worked on the records, helping us.... ;D Apart from a few little loose ends to clear up, I think we can let them "rest in peace"....
I look forward to hearing from you again, and others, and will open a new thread on another branch of the family............ ::) :) :-*
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Ditto, I am so sad that this has come to an end- rightfully though but it also impacts with my 'Lieut.Col. James Dalrymple' thread in the Scotland branch. We have a few ends still to tie up but for the main part we've answered my Mum's questions re: her childhood whispers and apart from that we have given Agnes Weymss Hankins nee Dalrymple a position which I strongly feel she may have felt she didn't have. She sounds as though she was actaully quite sad at times from my Mum's memories of her. Certainly she was austere-all the children referred to her as 'Mater' which has a distance to it and MUms aid she never hugged etc, they didn't dare as Grandchildren but they did their Grandfather J H Hankins who my MUm said was a 'sweetie'.Thank you all. I too have another branch or two now to look at through my Father's side but I do know a 2nd cousin and a sister-in-law have also done a fair bit on them. I just don't know what they have though.
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Chillis..Little Nell...
I have just recieved confirmation on Hannah Maria Hankins death burial..It states...........
I can confirm that Hannah Maria Hankins is buried in the Hokitika Cemetry, her interred date is 17/01/1873, she died at the age of 44 years.
Also buried in the same grave is James Merritt, he was interred on the 12/01/1873...
I can also tell you there is no headstone on the grave.
You can check our website www.westland.govt.nz and go to the cemetry and you will find the entry.
From the Community Liason Officer.
Westland District Council.
Hokitika NZ.
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Oh, well found except who is Mr Merritt?
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That is the million dollar question...Who ?? I have emailed the cemetry to see if they know any details..Bit strange she was buried with him...five days apart...leaves a lot of questions ...
I have found a death notice in papers Past..on the28th May, at Stafford Street, Hokitika, James Merritt, late of Fox's Creek, Storekeeper, aged 40 ....and...a Coroner's Inquest, held the day before at the Oddfellows Hotel, Revell Street before a Dr. Maunsell on the body of merritt, who died the previous day... There was a comment by his wife Ann Merritt..stating he was seeing a Dr.for a drinking problem.
There seems to be an inconsistency here re dates, but would be strange for there to be two James Merrits living at Hokitika at the same time...but it does happen...
He was 41..buried 12/01/1873...Hannah Maria hankins..44..buried, same plot..17/01/1873..
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MMm, very strange. If they died within a week of one another it does suggest some possible event. It is intriguing. There has to be something reported prior to the burials. Keep going Dalek39.
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The notice of that James Merritt's funeral is in the paper dated 30th May 1873, for the following Friday.
I don't think he would have been buried several months before he died, so maybe they made a mistake on the cemetery index.
The cemetery details indicate that James Merritt was 41 years of age and denomination was Anglican. In the same plot (2509) was Hannah Maria Hankins, aged 44, denomination Roman Catholic.
They each seem to be the only people with their respective surnames in that cemetery.
The fact that Hannah Maria was buried so soon after James Merritt may indicate that they opened one plot at a time, and as there was space the next burial simply went there also. There was apparently no religious separation in this burial ground as has been seen in others.
I know these seem to be conflicting statements. ::)
We need more information or it's just guesswork.
Kirsty
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Yes, that's sensible KirstyG- Is this a public grave or a private one for instance?
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Kirsty G / Glamis
I have already written off to the cemetry to see if they have any records, or other information why this happened....I am onto a very nice lady who so far has been very helpful, so cross the fingers I get her again,,,,will keep you posted..( pardon the pun) ;D :)
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Good- Oh, I hope she comes up trumps- fingers crossed :)
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Have a bit of a mystery on Hannah Maria Hankins death....I found where she died and was buried, and what I'm curious about is.....
Hannah Maria Hankins died 15 May 1873......
On the cemetry records they had her down as ..interred on 17/01/1873.....plot 2509..block 174..
also buried with her is a John Merritt..who also died in 1873..interred on 12/01/1873..plot 2509..block174..
WE have since received the following information..from the West Coast Times NZ..re a coroners inquest for James Merritt, who died 28 May 1873..There is also in the West Coast Times. dated 17 May a funeral notice for a "Mrs.John Hankins Snr.
This makes me wonder...They have it they were buried before they died... ::) and who is the reliable source..the Papers, or the Cemetry.( have contacted the cemetry, and waiting for a reply)... And..why would anyone bury a person, only to disturb the site to bury someone else on top of that person, in the same plot so many days after the last burial.. This leaves a lot of speculations as to why this happened...especially, as John Hankins, and her son were in a good financial situation....
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Just found a notice in papers past NZ..that a Mrs.Hankins.Miss Hankins.Master Hankins arrived in Hokitika on the Waipara..from Greymouth.. 2 Apr.1873.. was this to see Hannah Maria before she died.....and..another mention of an arrival of a Mrs.Hankins..Miss Hankins..Master Hankins..on the Titan..from Greymouth.. 1 Apr.1874...
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Ooh , how intriguiging. What do you make of it so far?
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I'm not sure..but..I see that the Hankins do get about a lot, back and fourth to Australia...I think Maria Hankins,lived in Melbourne, as I saw in a notice, that William Hankins died in Melbourne, but did not get that on the thread, as it does not really fit in with our lot....Apparently though, Maria Hankins divorced William, and I think she married his brother Edward...as I saw a death notice for Mrs Edward Hankins on Papers past.. and I have documentation that infers that.she may have married Edward....If you think its relevent I will find it..
Love the new Father Christmas's, especially the one third from the left..
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I'm still very confused by who is who. If they are 'our' lot do post it as it all helps. As for Father Christmas- its not yet December and we have had Christmas stuff in the shops since the beginning of September. I've had enough of it. Where are the days when we put Christmas decorations up on Christmas Eve, not before? I'm not really a humbug, Its just so commercial now. How are children going to learn any values other than shop, shop shop til you drop? ::)
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I agree...will put all...well not quite all..on the thread... :D
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Have just found that In the District Court of The County of Hokitika..Westland. NZ.. Edward Hankins was declared a Bankrupt....dated..9th Aug.1869..page 1
Edward was one of John Hankins sons...JH Hankins (lawyer) youngest brother..
. William Herbert Hankins..3rd son of John Hankins, and brother to both John H Hankins (lawyer) and Edward..was a jockey who died in the grand national race in NZ...3 Jun 1880..Inquest held 4 Jun 1880. That family had a lot of tragedy..poor souls.
Also a death of a Frederick Hankins...Papers past...14 Sept 1896 ) who was employed as a compositor with the Evening Post...The deceased, who was born in Victoria 33 years ago, was the son of the late Mr.Hankins, a journalist , well known in Melbourne, Hokitika, and Wellington...
I think he may have been one of John and Hannah'a grandchildren..but this has to be confirmed... ???
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Well found, Hard times though and sadness. What next?
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Next is...we have to wait till Chillis comes back, she said she may have some more for us, in the meantime..I'm still...looking....looking...looking...she said there is more to find, and from here its not easy.
I still would like to know who Anne (Richard Hankins wife) was..Anny who? Why dont they mention the wifes name..would make it a lot easier to trace....so far I have Richard with four Anns that could be his...
I feel we have done most of the NZ stuff now...apart from any gossip we may pick up..and with the festive season upon us, we may have to wait till the new Year....
I'm still "in the mud" ( aussie saying for stuck) on my other thread, James Nelson...he's hiding, but I'll find him....someday...as they say, you can run but you cant hide..Oh dear, did I say that.... ::)
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Hannah Maria Hankins..nee Herbert...father Daniel Herbert..mother Elizabeth... ??? Hannah born at All Saints Hereford, 1828.. 1841 census has Daniel Herbert with son Charles, and Elizabeth with another son, or grandson Samuel Hubert... occupation of Daniel..Innkeeper
Want to start a new thread on this one , as being a continuation of Hankins / Herbert... ;D
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Is Great Brickall Buckingham anywhere near Old Windsor Birks..England.. I have two Daniel Herberts born around the same time...One at Windsor..the other at Buckingham ???
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No, Great Brickhill, Buckinghamshire is more than 100 miles north of Windsor, Berkshire.
I have been into the Record Office today and have obtained copies of Wills for William HANKINS of Pigeon House, Weston Beggard (proved 10 May 1834) and that of Richard HANKINS of Yarkhill (proved 30 Sept. 1820). Will report on these shortly.
Chilis
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Hi Dalek39, the following link is for an Old Map of Bucks and the list of villages /towns Bucks used to have. Brickhill/Brickall doesn't appear.
http://www.old-mapping.com/counties/BUCKINGHAMSHIRE.html
Are you sure it isn't Bracknel, Berkshire?
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thanks Chilis and Glamis for that..No it is Great Brickhill....and thanks Chilis for that information..look forward to receiving it ;D
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Glamis...can you believe it..I got onto that website you gave, and Great Brickhill did not come up...page not found...but thanks anyway..
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I have the Will of William HANKINS of Pigeon House, Weston Beggard, proved 10th May 1834. No direct descendant is mentioned, but there are bequests to niece Sarah HALL, nephew Richard PITT, nephew Henry KINGS. The remaining Estate including property in the 'several parishes of Lugwardine, Bartestree, Weston Beggard and Dormington or elsewhere in the Kingdom of Great Britain' is bequeathed to his brother Richard HANKINS. William 'signed'.
The Will of Richard HANKINS, yeoman of the parish of Yarkhill, dated 1804, was proved 30th Sept. 1820. Richard made his 'mark'. Bequests to Sarah KING and Jane KING, 'two of the daughters of my niece Ann KING'. The remaining Estate to nephew Richard HANKINS, consisting of property in the 'several parishes of Yarkhill and Stoke Edith'.
These will surely confuse you!
Chilis
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Hannah Maria Herbert.. parents..Daniel Herbert and Elizabeth....who...both born around 1801...I found a Daniel Herbert and Elizabeth with two children on the 1841 census ..listed as Inkeepers...could these be Hannah Maria's parents... no mention of other family members..no Hannah Maria...
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Chilis...yes it is confusing to say the least..but interesting...you certainly have done a lot for us... many thanks...and in the cold too...much appreciated...
Now, firstly, the mention of Yeoman of the Parish of yarkill..what does that mean..Yeoman..and the request to Sarah Hall..is she the daughter of Richard and Ann...was Anns maiden name Hall...wonder. ??? :)
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I mentioned Hannah Maria Herberts parents...sorry, maybe I should have posted a new thread...no confusion...can you direct me there please if you think it necessary. :)
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Yeoman is usually a farmer of less standing than a 'gentleman'. Richard HANKINS was perhaps not as well educated as the later generation, as he made his 'mark' on the Will, whereas William HANKINS signed his.
In earlier days, I think a Yeoman Farmer was prepared to take up arms or had political leanings as well as being a farmer.
Chilis
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Re the two HANKINS Wills mentioned above, you should now have sight of these.
I admit here that I'm coming to the stage where I look at these and think that, if they were my family, I'd probably spend the next ten years trying to sort this all out. In the event, though, they're not MY family and I certainly don't think I've got ten years left anyway!!!
Chilis
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They say there is always a skeleton in a cupboard. I say - let's find ours. ;D
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Thanks once again Chilis...and I certainly dont expect you to get excited over this family..ha.ha.. Yes, they are an enigma.
However it has been fun, apart from the frustration, in tracing the Hankins....and...this is not the end of my line...eeerrrkkkk !!!! Who knows what we may find with the next lot....Run away you say, I would not blame you...there are others that need all the help they can get, apart from me. ;D Maybe one day I will write a book...in my dreams, as I have so much paperwork to sort out... ::) ;D
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Dear Chilis....you are a darling...thank you so very much..I received all that information and, yes, Glamis and I will continue, speaking for Glamis, but I'm sure she will be just as enthusiastic as I am.
Oh, by the way..The printout of the wills..they were too big for my computer, is there anyway you could resend them in a smaller print...If not, I will see my son next week and see if he can do it...I'm a great wizz on this machine...ha. anyway, once again..thanks heaps... :-* ;D :)
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Indeed Chillis- Yes you are wondeful- Thank you. There's a wealth of info in what you have found. What a great sleuth you are.
I've had a roam through some of the info but does anyone know what ' residual devisee' means? It relates to a reference to ' Richard Hankins, Banker deceased' and Title Deeds to land at Putley and Sunthill. I've looked at info on Putley- not found much. There's a 18th Century house still standing there, built 1703 called The Brainge but it doesn't have anything to do with this lot, it's all that came up on Hereford Council's SMR list for Putley. Sunthill isn't showing these days at all.
http://www.smr.herefordshire.gov.uk/hsmr/db.php?SF=1&parish_1=PUTLEY
I was looking for an old map of Herefordshire at the time. I did find this - it gives you an idea of Putley's location in Herefordshire.
http://www.british-towns.net/en/level_4_display.asp?GetL3=572
I'll keep looking though.
I may have found 2 of the 3 fields this Title Deed refers to. Not sure but have a look.
http://www.smr.herefordshire.gov.uk/hfn/db.php?owner=William+Miles%2C+Esq
Aylton seems to be an area occupied by Ast Wood and near to Ledbury. Richard Hankins 'of Ledbury'.
Oh my goodness. This search for info on Ledbury took me to the local newspaper. The Ledbury Reporter .
http://www.ledburyreporter.co.uk/
I think I've 'hooked' another rellie ;D
http://www.ledburyreporter.co.uk/news/991734.Researcher_finds_Ledbury_link/
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No, Great Brickhill, Buckinghamshire is more than 100 miles north of Windsor, Berkshire.
Last time I checked it was only about 35 miles from Windsor. I don't know of two Great Brickhills :-\
Nell
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MMmm- but is there a Brickhill at all?
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Greak Brickhill used to just Brickhill. It is shown on this map from 1814.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_files/ENG/BKM/cary_bkm_1814.html
Kirsty
edit: also here you can see the sevaral places locally with Brickhill as part of the name.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_files/ENG/BKM/pigot_bkm_1848.html
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KirstyG- Thank you, I have been searching Berkshire and Herefordshire. (Dim, not slim but...) You've cleared that one up. Boundaries moved didn't they and they still do? It seems the Hankins had fingers in many counties.
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Thanks Nell...just trying to establish where Daniel Herbert..Hannah Maria Herbert's father came from...One source ..has him son of John Hankins and Ann Pocock..but there are questions there with dates....but thanks anyway for that... :)
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Did some searching and came up with a Daniel Herbert..b 17 Feb 1802. Paul St. Independent..Taunton..Somerset..Parents Daniel and Mary... then checked daniel and Mary..saw he was born 1781..Old Windsor Birks. England...parents..John Herbert and Ann Pocock... Do you think there is a connection here ???
I know there are so many of them its daunting..may have to get Hannas birth cert. to find out name of mother..I know its Elizabeth someone...also born around the same time as daniel.. ::)
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It is very confusing when all of these generations kept recycling the same names. I thought you said you found one source saying John Hankins m'd Ann Pocock? If it is John Herbert who m'd her then that makes sense with Daniel being Herbert. Need to check that one.
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Did I say that...John Hankins married Ann Pocock...no no I meant John Herbert did...I must have had a senile moment...sorry... ::)
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Glamis....I did say that..I saw it...so sorry...I'm naughty..no wonder folk get confused.. :P :)
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Can anyone advise me where I go to get a birth record before 1837..I know its a parish, but I'm not too sure which one , do I need to go to a genealogy place and look at fiche..or is there something online...I am trying to get Hannah Maria Hankins birth record to see who her parents were..
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Dalek39, Have you looked at the National ARchives at Kew website? Also, this page has links on it for General Register Office. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/birthmarriagedeathcertificates.htm
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Thanks Glamis...for your help...much appreciated....Its nice to know someones there. :-* ;D
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Tried the National Archives, but they only have births later than 1837 also...so will have to look elsewhere...but thanks all the same Glamis..appreciated.. ;) :)
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What about the General Register Office for England and Wales- GRO?
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Do you mean Hannah Maria Herbert ch 1828 All Saints Hereford who married John Hankins?
Or is there another Hannah Maria Hankins that I don't know about?
If it is Hannah Maria Herbert's record, and we have already seen it on the IGI, why don't you just view the film as an LDS Family History Centre which should allow you to see an image of the original and if it hold any more information than just the parents names shown in the index.
You really should start a separate thread for the Herberts or this thread will get even more confused.
Kirsty
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The Hannah Maria in my family is the one born in 1828...to John Hankins...There is another one who is mixed in with my dates on Family Search and Ancestry, which made it very difficult to trace...Her DOB is 1845 if my memory serves, which is so confusing..but she went to South Australia and her fathers name was Charles... so there are quite a few Hannah Marias out there....that is why I would like to find her "roots" as in parents....so will get to a Family Search place when I find one close by...
I would like to open a new thread on her side..I know her father is Daniel Herbert b 1801 and mother Elizabeth, but to do a search I need to know both parents as there are so many with the same names....
I think the Hankins thread can have a rest for now, I agree its soooo long.. and I have some tidying up to do...so thanks to everyone who helped me...very much appreciated... :-* :)
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Dalek39, I think because back then they did seem to like the same range of names and recycled them many times, that hasn't helped the confusion. I know it well! Anyway, the fact that the Hankins merged with the Herberts has added confusion and more so sifting out which Herbert to our Hankins. I think you've done well getting through as you have. As 12 Hankins children arrived in NZ, it touches on the enormity of tracing them and their offspring nevermind the Hankins who remained in Hereford and who went before them.They were prolific. There are still many ends to tie up but you've achieved an awful lot. Thanks also to the help offered by others. It is wonderful to see the graves of my forebears and adds clarity to the fog of my NZ Mother's knowledge from childhood chat that somewhere back in the distant past her Grandfather; J H Hankins came from Hereford but she didn't know where. :)
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Thanks Glamis....I realize how large this Hankins family was and I'm satisfied with what I have there..tie up a few loose ends, and then let them rest in peace...I also thank all involved for their tremendous help in achieving this...
The Herbert side of my family is a different line, even though they married into the Hankins with John and Hannah'a marriage, to stop with the Hankins would leave a gap in the family tree..., I will leave it for awhile..and get on with others... :-* ::) ;D
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Yes, huge families they both were and now are. Hereford to my NZ Mum aged 4,5,6,7 or something was a far off land some where beyond the 'rainbow' !!! :) Geography at school was one thing, history lessons another but making it real was why she came here having married a British Army Officer.
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Funny thing..My mother was born in NZ..my father was in the Army, but not an officer...what a coincidence eh?..
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I would like to close down this Hankins thread...but also ...would like to thank all involved for their effort in helping us..we could not have achieved what we have without you.... We do appreciate your assistance...all the best...Dalek..and Glamis... :-* :) :) :-*
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Yes, Thanks to all who have helped. It is another great result that started for me and my Mum regarding Lieut.Col. James Dalrymple. After all, It has connected me with Dalek39; my cousin whom I would not have met otherwise. This is just amazing. My Mum is completely intrigued. All of 'our' finds have yielded such interesting information and I am grateful for the help and interest shown. Thanks again.
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Hey guys, interesting reading everything you have found out!. I am wondering if by any chance, you came accross a Charles Leonard Leamon Hankins. He was the son of Charles Hankins and Alice Hankins (Leamon).
Charles LL Hankins was taken off his parents at 7 due child abuse. When he grew up he married Marjorie Grenfell Milford and they went on to have many children.
Any help would be great:)
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If you are still looking for Hannah Maria Hankins brother of John Herbert Hankins? Hannah was also known as Anna and Annie.
Annie Maria Hankins married another Hankins, Edward. Edward Hankins is descendant from the Greenhouse Hankins. Son of William Henry Hankins who passed away at Greenhouse in 1829. He was married to Jane Jones of Altibilla or Alta bella house. Edward migrated with his first wife and then emigrated to Adelaide in 1852. He later emigrated to NZ with his wife Mary Ann nee Williams where she died on West Coast. He later had 3 children with Annie Maria but they only pretended to be married since they had same surname. They were not married until much later in Auckland where her 3 young children were raised. Edward died young at 55yrs 1885 at Auckland leaving his wife destitute.
This is my daughters paternal line. Her father and grandfather were born in Auckland. Her Great grandfather Alfred Nelson Hankins was born in Nelson.
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Hi ValerieB1959. I am always interested in the various family connections. Thank You very much for this information. I am descended from John Herbert Hankins so if I understand you correctly; Hannah Maria Hankins was his sister which means your daughter and her Father are cousins of mine.
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I hadn't seen Kazlee82's information posted some while ago and it has raised a memory of my Mother mentioning an 'Uncle Charles'. I will speak to her and ask if she can recall anything about him. I also recall something about child abuse and a little boy but again will clarify this and get back to you.
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Yes Glamis
My daughter Emma Hankins, her father Peter John Hankins, (ex husband), his father Norman Harold Hankins, His father Alfred Nelson Hankins, His parent Annie Maria Hankins and Edward Hankins. All old fathers hence not many generations.
I had an inkling that maybe john Herbert Hankins and his sis may have been estranged. If you look at the electoral rolls for west coast you will see John Herbert and Edward Hankins were associated. I assume that is how Edward met Annie maria but he was much older and married. His wife died when they were living on west coast. Annie and Edward always claimed they married 5 dec 1879 at wellington and this is recorded on Alfred Nelson Hankins birth cert. NOT SO. they married 19 Sept 1884 in Auckland after the children were born and only 1 year before Edward died.
He seemed to be a bit of a charmer, certainly less than honest. His obituary can be located on paperspast but the claims don't always check out. Lots of bankrupcy, bad business relationships, and general financial mismanagement on rather a prolific scale. He was a sports journalist and involved in horse racing therefore, i have come to the conclusion he could well have been a gambler.
He was well known and ultimately left his wife destitute with 3 small toddlers. I could not understand why perhaps her brother John Herbert did not help her since he was so successful but it maybe because he disapproved of the involvement. Would not surprise me given Edward's instability.
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Hi ValerieB1959, Well all of this supports a Hankins family theme of all of these things; Bankruptcy being a major feature. All things farming, wheeling and dealing and Horse racing was also a significant one given that one brother was killed in one major New Zealand race. Again, I'll need to search that one out and his name but it is also in Paperspast somewhere. I think he may have been William but don't quote me on that as it may be wrong. J H Hankins was at one time a Grand Master of the Masonic Lodge at Kilwinning and he held a lot of esteem in that. His wife who was very grand indeed was likely to be one reason he didn't involve himself in 'other' family connections which is sad. He was the oldest child of the 10 and as such in my opinion should have had a purpose as the family figurehead position.My Mother recalls an Uncle Hankins ( the name escapes me for now) who was a butcher and whilst she never met him she knew her older Sister Ruth did which is why My Mum became aware of his existence. He for one was never included in J H Hankins' family matters which my Mother attributes to his station at the time. J H Hankins and his Wife Agnes were rubbing noses with those who were and those who would if they could be. My Mother describes her Granny Hankins as an austere lady , very Victorian towards the children in that they dare not speak unless they were spoken to and no children were allowed home to play other than those who were vetted and deemed acceptable etc etc. That was a rare occurrence anyway. ( My Mother lived with her Granny and Grand Father for a few years in her young life) J H Hankins would have been apart from all of this busy building his law firm and his connections.He had at some point returned to Scotland to Kilwinning to do his law degree but this is something I still need to find the evidence for as it is anecdotal evidence that my Mother has given me.The other problem is that the Hankins family as with many Victorians had the most annoying habit of using the same names over and over again.Sifting through the Williams and the Edwards etc has made it very confusing all along. Hannah Maria who arrived in New Zealand with William Hankins and their 10 children died young leaving William with the brood. J H Hankins was 17 at this time. William had left Hereford in England as a Licensee and prior to that had been from farming stock. He arrived in New Zealand giving his profession as a Veterinary Surgeon. It isn't a surprise to me that he didn't do well from the event of the death of his wife and that the children scattered in different directions after that. It was a very harsh life back then and one of survival of the fittest in the truest sense as Darwin describes.
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Hello there "Glamis"..Will PM you later, just read your thread..correction Mdear..It was John Hankins who married Hannah Maria Herbert/Hankins, and he was the Veterinary Surgeon with 11 children..Hanna Maria Hankins died at the age of 44 leaving John Hankins with all the Children...I have John and Hannas' death certificates, plus a lot of information on this family.. Its so easy to get confused with the Hankins, (I was an expert with confusion) The Pidgeon house, was once rented by William Hankins, John Hankins grandfather, but the original Hankins owner was on a different line than ours....maybe cousins... I have all the dates etc..and documentation going back to the 1600s I will put together what I know, unfortunately, the last two years I have not done any more research..due to the death of my husband...... :-*
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Dalek39, Thank Heavens you stepped in and corrected my mistake. It was the Hannah Maria that threw me.Anyway,I hope you; ValerieB1959 are able to find your way through the various Hankins without too much problem.Dalek39 really is so very resourceful and helpful. She has so much information about the family that will help. She's also a cousin; born from J H Hankins youngest sister Alice.
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Thanks Glamis
that explains a lot.. I certainly got the impression that Annie Maria's involvement with Edward was not approved of. After all they did live defacto.. Not done then.
Edward was the nephew of Thomas Frederick Paul Hankins. Edward was the son of his next brother who died at 30 and buried at Dymock. TFP certainly looked out for Edward and his brother Thomas Frederick Hankins. He was a master mariner (see index for welsh mariners) raised in Usk and died in ship wreck at 25 i think. TFP was the heir of Greenhouse dymock but his father disinherit him in his will. That was the end of Greenhouse for that line of Hankins. John the next brother inherited and he married Elizabeth Holloway. There lots of legal docs at the archives regarding the financial demise of this line. Not had funds to acquire them though. My daughters family of Hankins never knew anything beyond Annie Maria. Seems to be hidden from descendants probably because of embarrassment. Edward seemed like a right charmer. Always called himself a gentleman despite his constant bankruptcies and shonky dealings. There is a collection of articles regarding Annie Maria in the Auckland museum deposited by her daughter. All sorts of letters, dance cards and other bits and pieces.
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so which countries are you in Dalek and Glamis
If you want to exchange docs at any time *
Regards
Valerie Barton formerly Hankins
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Hi ValerieB1959, Thank You. You've clarified the Greenhouse matter for me although I still get very confused by these Hankinns because there were so very many of them. I am interested to hear of TFP Hankins being a mariner because Ian Hankins who was son of Elizabeth and Ford Hankins ( Ford being a younger son of J H Hankins. Mum says he was also a solicitor in the firm) was also a Ship's Captain. Ian sailed tankers all around the world ending up in Vancouver, Canada. I met him here about 15 years ago when he came to see my Mum; his cousin. Mum says Uncle Ford dealt a mean parenting method to Ian and because of that Ian left home around 14 or 15 years old to go to sea.Ian described himself as ' illegitimate' because he'd been born the other side of the matrimonial bed although his parents obviously married after his birth.His sisters were Gwynedd and June Hankins. J H Hankins' wife; Agnes favoured these two and paid for them to go to private school- Carn Tot school in Palmerston North where they lived. Whilst June and Gwynedd were friends with my Mum and they came to play with her when Mum lived with her Aunt May (another child from J H Hankins and Agnes ) Mum was never invited to their home although she knew the street and the house they lived in. Anyway, I am in England near to Portsmouth and my Mum lives just 1 mile from me and will soon be 94. Dalek39 is in Melbourne, Australia. I know Dalek39 has many papers and she also has contact with a wonderful chap in Hereford who is a very keen amateur but very proficient researcher and has been actively searching our Hankins lot for a few years.
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Hi Glamis
You got a bit confused with TFP Hankins.. He was the Rev TFP Hankins the brother of William henry who died in 1830 at Greenhouse . It was his son TFP Hankins Nephew who was the mariner. He was named after his uncle TFP but his name was Thomas Frederick (no Paul) Hankins
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Hi ValerieB1959, Thanks for clearing that up. What did I say about there being so many Hankins and I should also add the way they recycled names through the family.
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Hi I'm Norm (in New Zealand) my link is via Margaret Hankins of Worcester who married John Martin Holloway (1780). She was the daughter of Edward Hankins & Ann Barton. His parents were William & Ursula. Williams parents were William married to Susannah Elton both of Ledbury. Looking for both their births and who was Ursula?
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Hello Norm..received your post..will have to get back to you..unfortunately all my records are packed away at present due to re carpeting...Im not sure I can help that far back but will have a look when things are back in order...in the meantime have a look at my thread..(John Hankins).. there may be info there...will be in touch Dalek....
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Very many thanks Dale, re your comment 30-6-2010 6:23 AM--- marriage settlement 1623 Feb.17 should that read 1693? look forward to hearing from you Norm
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Not sure Norm untill I look up my records,,, I had a post on BG Forums..John Hankins might be worth a look.... be intouch..and Happy Easter...
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Thanks Dale, Happy easter to you and yours
Norm
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Hi Dale,
Just received a treasure trove of info, far too much for a post (three pages!) Bye the way, your post was correct, 1623, so there were two William & Ursula's 70 years apart, incredible!
Please contact me on: * and I will send you the file.
Norm
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