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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: LucasKernan on Saturday 04 June 22 09:16 BST (UK)
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I am in a search for Peter Kernan's parents (Born: abt. 1797 Died: October 31st 1881). I have searched for every record I could find and double-checked them for any information for his Parents (Birth, marriage, US Census, Death, etc.) but cannot find anything. Someone lists his birth place as County Cork. I know that he married Jane Neil(l) in 1827. Most of his Children Were born in County Meath, includind my 2nd great grandfather, Bartholomew Kernan (born:1839 died: 1917) If anyone has any help, please tell me.
Best Regards,
Lucas
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Duplicate post here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=862768.0;topicseen
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Assuming this is Bartholomew's baptism, there are no known surviving records before 1836.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635222#page/13/mode/1up
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0945&parish=Kilcloon,%20Batterstown%20and%20Kilcock
Parents' marriage in 1827.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635064#page/45/mode/1up
No known baptism records have survived before 1798.
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0904&parish=Dunboyne
It would be a good idea to go through the baptisms of all the children to see the names of sponsors.
Debra :)
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Someone lists his birth place as County Cork.
What is the source of County Cork as a possible birthplace?
What was his occupation?
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Assuming this is Bartholomew's baptism, there are no known surviving records before 1836.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635222#page/13/mode/1up
Parents' marriage in 1827.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635064#page/45/mode/1up
It would be a good idea to go through the baptisms of all the children to see the names of sponsors.
I noticed a couple of things.
Only 1 sponsor for Bartholomew, presumably from mother's side. That might indicate that there were no convenient paternal relatives around at the time to be godfather. On the other hand, Peter's male relatives may have all been away from home when the baby was born.
Variant spellings of surname, Kernan, Kearney. Also a Kiernan marriage on opposite page.
Do names of marriage witnesses ring any bells?
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Some points for OP:
Have you checked the tythe valuations for Peter?
I would suggest that the supposed Cork origin for Peter is almost certainly spurious. If he married and had all his children in Meath, then the chances that he was originally from Cork would be less than 0.1%, in my experience. Instead, I would suggest that this supposed origin is due to the all too common phenomenon of ancestor collecting found on Ancestry - simply finding a birth with the right name and roughly the right time scale, somewhere (anywhere!) in Ireland (or even Britain/Europe).
The emphasis seems to be on Peter, but what of Jane O'Neill? Are her parents known?
Given the lack of sources, the reality is that Peter's birth and parents are very highly unlikely to be found.
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There has been a story told generation after generation about my surname. According to them, They originally had the surname with a O Before the Kernan. Mabye this could help?
Best regards,
Lucas Kernan
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Someone lists his birth place as County Cork.
What is the source of County Cork as a possible birthplace?
What was his occupation?
The mention of Co Cork may have come from this posting of mine when I referred to a Family Tree on Family Search that seemed to be tracking the same people Kernan/Donnelly and made the suggestion that OP could contact them. Ellen Donnelly married Wm (?) Kernan in Philadelphia. I don't think any of the posts in several very confusing threads suggested that the Kernans came from Co Cork. Though OP may have found a ref somewhere else.
'There is a tree on FS that has Ellen Donnelly (my bolding made today 5/6/22) coming to NY in 1891 on the Umbria embarking at Queenstown
Perhaps OP should have a look at this tree as there are others looking it seems and fairly recently. The name seems to vary between Kernan, Kernen and Hernen.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/2W92-F1B'
Quite few previous posts and the risk of rehashing previous info provided is great....
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=861171.msg7303654#msg7303654
OP as a start if you want to make a separate post for every ancestor you are tracking please provide for Peter Kernan and Jane O'Neill
birth date or place (that you surmise)
Wife
marriage date & place
death date and place
Names of children, dates in birth order
There are several records that you do not appear to have searched yet
tithes records as mentioned above
Griffiths Valuation
Exploring any possible links on the National Archives census site
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There has been a story told generation after generation about my surname. According to them, They originally had the surname with a O Before the Kernan. Mabye this could help?
Prefixes O and Mc/Mac might be added to a surname or omitted from it according to circumstance. You have to remember to search for all possibilities. Looking at your other threads about Kernan, I mentioned the variant McKernan in one of them.
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I would suggest that the supposed Cork origin for Peter is almost certainly spurious. If he married and had all his children in Meath, then the chances that he was originally from Cork would be less than 0.1%, in my experience. Instead, I would suggest that this supposed origin is due to the all too common phenomenon of ancestor collecting found on Ancestry - simply finding a birth with the right name and roughly the right time scale, somewhere (anywhere!) in Ireland (or even Britain/Europe).
I tend to agree. That's why I asked questions in my reply 3. My question about occupation was prompted by the thought that Peter's occupation (or his father's) may have caused him to move a long distance to another county, e.g. police, army, surveyor.
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I found a record of a Peter Kernan being born in 1796 in Westmeath. Could this be a possible match as His marrige and children were born
in meath?
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61039/images/04162_03_0052?pid=3126209&treeid=176525003&personid=392353414383&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bmO335&_phstart=successSource
Best regards,
Luke
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Lucas, the link in your reply #10 can be viewed only by someone with a subscription. Please summarise the information about the Westmeath Peter Kernan birth + a source/sources (e.g. baptism register, parish/church name, date).
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Baptism:
Peter Kernan
13 February 1796
son to John & Marcella Allen
sponsors: John Clarch & Mary Clarch
priest: J Halligan
owing to transcription issues with Ancestry, the name looks more like Kirwan than Kernan.
In saying that, there is a John Kernan at Hopestown, Mullingar, co Westmeath in Tithe Applotment Books.
I still lean towards it being Kirwan.Anyone else have a take?
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Griffiths Valuations:
Peter Kernan:
St George, Dublin
Timahoe, Kildare
Tumna, Roscommon
Peter Kiernan:
Templeport, Cavan
Lavey, Cavan
Munterconnaught, Cavan
Carrigallen, Leitrim
Abbeylara, Longford
Columbkille, Longford
Killoe, Longford
Killincoole, Louth
Judt to give a small idea of where Peter Kernan may be found.
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Maybe we should look for his
Birth immigration record.
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Maybe we should look for his immigration record.
Your opening post included U.S. census in a list of sources you had checked. However, you didn't state that Peter had definitely emigrated.
Peter's son, Bartie Kernan was born in Meath, was in Kildare on 1911 census and died in Kildare according to your topic "Who was Bartie Kernan". Do you have information that Peter or any of the family emigrated? If Peter emigrated, can you calculate or estimate when it might have happened?
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=861171
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Maybe we should look for his Birth immigration record.
Why? Did he emigrate and what would that tell you? You have a marriage, children and death in Ireland, I think. I might have missed something here.
Daughter Jane, b 1832 has a sponsor - Bartle Kiernan (nit sure re spelling)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635066#page/45/mode/1up
Son Bryan, b 1828 has a sponsor Margaret Kiernan
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635066#page/25/mode/1up
Have you searched for these people?
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Maybe we should look for his Birth immigration record.
Why? Did he emigrate and what would that tell you? You have a marriage, children and death in Ireland, I think. I might have missed something here.
I'm also puzzled as Lucas didn't tell us that Peter emigrated.
To satisfy my curiosity I've delved once more into past threads by Lucas, even more deeply than I've done before.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=861527
This has title "Church Record of Death of Peter Kernan (abt. 1797-1881)". It's peculiar as it begins with a post by Lucas containing a single word, "Thanks". There's 1 reply with links to "Find a Grave" and a tree on Family Search. There must have been more to this topic originally.
Information for Peter Kernan on "Find a Grave" is that he was born 1795 in Cobh, County Cork and died in New Jersey, 1881.
The tree on Family Search has been deleted and merged with another Peter Kernan tree. This has him born 1795 in Queenstown, Clonmel, Cork. Clonmel civil parish consists of Fota Island and part of Great Island in Cork Harbour. Cobh/Queenstown is on Great Island. Jane Neill is Peter's spouse on the tree. Children on the tree include Bartle born 1839. Births of children 1828-1846. some with Co. Meath as birthplace, some Co, Cork, some only "Ireland". Some of them died in New Jersey. Someone else may have commented on reliability or otherwise of the tree.
Another Kernan U.S. connection is William Kernan & wife Ellen Donnelly.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=860901
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Well it took him several months to come back here, Maiden Stone, so we will have to wait for an explanation. ;)
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PS to my replies #15 & 17.
Shanreagh's reply #7 mentioned some U.S. connections in Lucas' other topics, e.g. Ellen Donnelly & William Kernan.
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I think I am a bit mixed up.
It was Peter’s son who died in 1917 not Peter, I think.
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I think I am a bit mixed up.
It was Peter’s son who died in 1917 not Peter, I think.
Yes. Bartholomew died in Ireland in 1917 (opening post).
William who went to U.S.A. was (may have been?) Bartie's son. (Info on a long thread about William's wife, Ellen Donnelly.)
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Assuming this is Bartholomew's baptism, there are no known surviving records before 1836.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635222#page/13/mode/1up
It would be a good idea to go through the baptisms of all the children to see the names of sponsors.
Only 1 sponsor for Bartholomew, presumably from mother's side. That might indicate that there were no convenient paternal relatives around at the time to be godfather.
Sponsor for Bartle was Bessy Neil.
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I think I am a bit mixed up.
It was Peter’s son who died in 1917 not Peter, I think.
Yes. Bartholomew died in Ireland in 1917 (opening post).
William who went to U.S.A. was (may have been?) Bartie's son. (Info on a long thread about William's wife, Ellen Donnelly.)
Righto - caught up with the William/Ellen thread now :)
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Well it took him several months to come back here, Maiden Stone, so we will have to wait for an explanation. ;)
I started researching my russian and german family tree. That's why, but now I'm back ;)
Also, Peter got married in Dunboyne on May 2, 1827. I wonder if there is a detailed version of this record.
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Well it took him several months to come back here, Maiden Stone, so we will have to wait for an explanation. ;)
I started researching my russian and german family tree. That's why, but now I'm back ;)
Also, Peter got married in Dunboyne on May 2, 1827. I wonder if there is a detailed version of this record.
Good to have you back.
Lots of searching done here by rootschatters on your behalf, Lucas.
Have you searched for a more detailed record of Peter’s marriage anywhere?
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Well it took him several months to come back here, Maiden Stone, so we will have to wait for an explanation. ;)
I started researching my russian and german family tree. That's why, but now I'm back ;)
Also, Peter got married in Dunboyne on May 2, 1827. I wonder if there is a detailed version of this record.
Good to have you back.
Lots of searching done here by rootschatters on your behalf, Lucas.
Have you searched for a more detailed record of Peter’s marriage anywhere?
I've just contacted them and they've said that they don't have any thing else except for a index record:
Peter Kernan and Jane Neil
Dunboyne May 2nd, 1827
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Dundee gave you the parish record earlier in the thread.
You won’t get much detail at that time.
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Assuming this is Bartholomew's baptism, there are no known surviving records before 1836.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635222#page/13/mode/1up
It would be a good idea to go through the baptisms of all the children to see the names of sponsors.
2 earlier baptisms, Bryan 1828 & Jane 1832 in Dunboyne parish found by heywood, reply #16. Each had a Kiernan sponsor. That seems to be evidence that Peter had relatives living locally, unless someone stood as proxy for Kiernan sponsors. I wonder why Bartle had only 1 sponsor, a Neil.
A register of deaths (1787-1877) exists for Dunboyne parish. I suggest that Lucas searches for Kernan/Kiernan and Neil deaths in it.
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I found many birth records of Peter Kernan. I think he probably was born in a parish around Dunboyne.
The surrounding parishes are:
-Donymore
-Ratoath
-Kilcloon, Batterstown, and Kilcock
-Blanchardstown
-Maynooth
I didn't find any Deaths of any Kernan.
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Do you think he emigrated with his children?
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Do you think he emigrated with his children?
Don’t know but a smart answer is Yes. The first record of him and his children was in 1859. Here is the first record of him:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q28S-B1QL
Also, I he first and last appears in the US Census in 1880. He immigrated between 1870-1880 probably.
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Do you think he emigrated with his children?
Don’t know but a smart answer is Yes. The first record of him and his children was in 1859. Here is the first record of him:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q28S-B1QL
Also, I he first and last appears in the US Census in 1880. He immigrated between 1870-1880 probably.
That's a marriage record of a Bernard Kearnan whose father was called Peter. It's evidence of whereabouts of a Bernard Kearnan. Do you have a connection to that Bernard Kearnan? Who was he?
The marriage record isn't evidence that the groom's father, Peter Kearnan was in U.S. at the time.
The record appears to be connected to a Peter Kearnan who died in U.S. 1881. A family tree on Family Search assigned that Peter a birth year of 1795 and a birthplace in County Cork. I don't know what the evidence is for the birth year or the birthplace. I recall looking at the tree last weekend.
I don't see any evidence that the Peter from County Cork was the Peter who married Jane Neil in Dunboyne and had children there.
The above record isn't evidence that Peter, husband of Jane & father of Bryan, Jane and Bartie emigrated to U.S.
The smart answer to the question "Did he emigrate?" is "I don't know."
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Do you think he emigrated with his children?
Don’t know but a smart answer is Yes. The first record of him and his children was in 1859. Here is the first record of him:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q28S-B1QL
Also, I he first and last appears in the US Census in 1880. He immigrated between 1870-1880 probably.
That's a marriage record of a Bernard Kearnan whose father was called Peter. It's evidence of whereabouts of a Bernard Kearnan. Do you have a connection to that Bernard Kearnan? Who was he?
The marriage record isn't evidence that the groom's father, Peter Kearnan was in U.S. at the time.
The record appears to be connected to a Peter Kearnan who died in U.S. 1881. A family tree on Family Search assigned that Peter a birth year of 1795 and a birthplace in County Cork. I don't know what the evidence is for the birth year or the birthplace. I recall looking at the tree last weekend.
I don't see any evidence that the Peter from County Cork was the Peter who married Jane Neil in Dunboyne and had children there.
The above record isn't evidence that Peter, husband of Jane & father of Bryan, Jane and Bartie emigrated to U.S.
The smart answer to the question "Did he emigrate?" is "I don't know."
Y'all must have the patience of Job, because I don't.
Many of the above points were made previously. Obviously Mr Lucas isn't listening, which has been clear for quite a while now....
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Thanks Lucas. I see them all now and the death details for Peter.
As you can see we have tried to help you and tried to find Peter’s birth with no success, which is sad but you have a wealth of information about him. You are most fortunate that you have so much detail about your family. :)
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With regard to Peter's possible emigration.
Bartholomew Kiernan's 2nd marriage was in 1880 in Naas Superintendent Registration District. A note next to his father's name said, "uncertain if alive". This suggests to me that Peter may have moved a long way away and Bartle had no recent news of him.
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I looked at the 1880 US Census where it lists Peter Kernan. It says that he was 85 and was born in Ireland. This means that he was born between Jun 1, 1794 to May 31, 1795.
Source:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYBG-HMZ?cc=1417683&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMN8Q-PXV
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See my reply #34.
If he was born in Dunboyne, baptisms do not begin until 1798.
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I looked at the 1880 US Census where it lists Peter Kernan. It says that he was 85 and was born in Ireland. This means that he was born between Jun 1, 1794 to May 31, 1795.
It doesn't mean that he was born between those dates. All it means is that he or his son decided to put 85 as his age on the census.
Age on a census for people of his generation should be treated as an estimate. Many didn't know how old they were. Most didn't mark birthdays. A rough estimate is to add 5 years either side. Peter might have been in his 80's or he might have been younger or older.
A large number of people gave the wrong age on Ireland census 1901. Ages of elderly people on 1911 Ireland census were more likely to be accurate than they were on 1901census because state old age pensions were introduced in 1909 and applicants had to prove their age.
Ages were wrong by about a decade for all members of the household of one of my Irish families on 1901 census. Estimated birth years for another of my Irish families who moved to England also varied by up to a decade on English census returns; they were born in 1830s or 1840s. My Irish GF who moved to England when a young man subtracted a couple more years off his age on each census until eventually his census age was 10 years less than his real age. Another of my Irish relatives under-estimated his mother's age by around 10 years when he went to register her death.
The Peter we found records for married in 1827. Average age for 1st marriage of an Irishman at the time was early 20s. Average age at marriage for men increased post-Famine (1840s). Peter may have been born during 1st decade of 19th century if the 1827 marriage was his first.
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I looked at the 1880 US Census where it lists Peter Kernan. It says that he was 85 and was born in Ireland. This means that he was born between Jun 1, 1794 to May 31, 1795.
It doesn't mean that he was born between those dates. All it means is that he or his son decided to put 85 as his age on the census.
Age on a census for people of his generation should be treated as an estimate. Many didn't know how old they were. Most didn't mark birthdays. A rough estimate is to add 5 years either side. Peter might have been in his 80's or he might have been younger or older.
A large number of people gave the wrong age on Ireland census 1901. Ages of elderly people on 1911 Ireland census were more likely to be accurate than they were on 1901census because state old age pensions were introduced in 1909 and applicants had to prove their age.
Ages were wrong by about a decade for all members of the household of one of my Irish families on 1901 census. Estimated birth years for another of my Irish families who moved to England also varied by up to a decade on English census returns; they were born in 1830s or 1840s. My Irish GF who moved to England when a young man subtracted a couple more years off his age on each census until eventually his census age was 10 years less than his real age. Another of my Irish relatives under-estimated his mother's age by around 10 years when he went to register her death.
The Peter we found records for married in 1827. Average age for 1st marriage of an Irishman at the time was early 20s. Average age at marriage for men increased post-Famine (1840s). Peter may have been born during 1st decade of 19th century if the 1827 marriage was his first.
Smart answer! My answer was a stupid answer. You are correct becuase I looked at the immigration records, there were not any "peter kernan" born in abt. 1795, instead there were many born abt. 1810s. This proves your theory.
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An example of an inaccurate age on a census was Bartle Kerins/Kearns on 1901 census. He stated his age was 60 on 1901 census. He was 72 on 1911 census. He gained 12 years during the 10 years & 2 days between the 2 census dates. The likely reason for the discrepancy is that in 1909 he became 70, the qualifying age for the newly introduced old age pension. Bartle would have had to prove that he was old enough, perhaps by asking for written proof either his baptism date or a census return from his childhood. Knowing his exact age wouldn't have been important in 1901.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Robertstown/Brockagh/1444339/
His name has been transcribed Partick Kerins
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kildare/Robertstown/Brockagh/569856/
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What is the next thing I should search for Peter Kernan?
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Where have you searched besides the records searched by people here?
Where else, do you think, might have any records? We only find information by searching the sites available.
As far as I can see, the various Irish records available have been searched plus some US records for you. We may have exhausted all, sad to say.
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Smart answer! My answer was a stupid answer. You are correct becuase I looked at the immigration records, there were not any "peter kernan" born in abt. 1795, instead there were many born abt. 1810s. This proves your theory.
There are no stupid answers. You believed that what you read was an undisputable fact. It may have been correct. It may have been what the person or his relatives believed. It may have been a guess. We don't know.
Some immigrants didn't give their real ages, either unknowingly or deliberately.
The above doesn't prove my theory. There is no proof.
Recorded ages of one of my Irish relatives: 37 on 1901 census; 57 on 1911 census; 74 when she died in 1940. (57 in 1911 is nearest the truth.) Her mother's age on 1901 census was 70 but that was wrong as she married in 1840. Her father died in 1898, reported age 88 = estimated year of birth 1810. The earliest record of him is the 1840 marriage. My estimate is that he was born sometime before 1820 and after 1800.
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Where have you searched besides the records searched by people here?
Where else, do you think, might have any records? We only find information by searching the sites available.
As far as I can see, the various Irish records available have been searched plus some US records for you. We may have exhausted all, sad to say.
I have contacted the Cementery Peter and his wife buried. In reply, they said:
Good morning!
I received your request for a picture of a headstone for Peter & Jane Kernan who are in grave L-75 #5. There is no stone for them, but the owner of this grave is Mrs. Jane McGee, and she owns both grave #5 & #6. Simon MaGee is in #6 so this picture shows his marker in #6 and next to it on the right is where Peter and Jane are buried.
Enjoy your day!
Kathy Thau
Office Manager
Holy Sepulchre Cemetery
Catholic Cemeteries - Archdiocese of Newark
Office. 973-678-3757| Fax. +973-678-7109
www.rcancem.org
Mabye this could help? She also said that she is looking for information on the couple. I know that they moved from St. Lucy plot 36-5.
Here's the Grave Photo:
(https://i.postimg.cc/FstcH6gP/IMG-6269.jpg)
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I looked at Peter and Jane's Marriage location called Dunboyne. It was a adjoining parish with Moyglare or Moylagh. I found out that Moylagh is Oldcastle, where I found many court records of a man called, Peter Kernan.
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I have contacted the Cementery Peter and his wife buried. In reply, they said:
I received your request for a picture of a headstone for Peter & Jane Kernan who are in grave L-75 #5. There is no stone for them, but the owner of this grave is Mrs. .... and she owns both grave #5 & #6. Simon MaGee is in #6 so this picture shows his marker in #6 and next to it on the right is where Peter and Jane are buried.
Holy Sepulchre Cemetery
Catholic Cemeteries - Archdiocese of Newark
Mabye this could help? She also said that she is looking for information on the couple. I know that they moved from St. Lucy plot 36-5.
You didn't tell us that Jane, Peter's wife was buried there. You didn't tell us that Jane had/might have emigrated.
You or the woman who now owns the grave would have to work out if there's a relationship between Peter or a member of his family and the Magee family.
I left out the name of the grave owner because RootsChat doesn't allow names of living people on the Forum. You should remove her name and the name of the office manager from your post. Reproducing the entire content of a private email on the public Forum is a no-no in my opinion. You could have posted relevant parts and left out names of living people or summarised the content.
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I looked at Peter and Jane's Marriage location called Dunboyne. It was a adjoining parish with Moyglare or Moylagh. I found out that Moylagh is Oldcastle, where I found many court records of a man called, Peter Kernan.
What records and what years?
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Maiden Stone,
I agree that the name of the sender of the email should be removed. However Jane McGee, I would think, was the owner at the time.
Maybe Lucas will tell us that from his research Jane McGee was Jane Kiernan. It would seem that Simon was her son.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT8W-QHW
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What records and what years?
Here they are:
Ireland, Petty Sessions Court Registers, 1828-1912
February 28, 1870
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-4R3H
December 3, 1877
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-WJHZ
October 3, 1864
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-SRNZ
August 12, 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-HZNX
June 7, 1862
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-SNMT
May 5, 1862
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-9DYQ
April 23, 1866
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-331X
December 11, 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-HLNQ
November 16, 1869
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-MWST
June 2, 1862
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-SNMD
June 2, 1862
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-SNMN
May 19, 1862
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-SZ7W
August 25, 1862
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-94QD
August 12, 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-HZNW
August 12, 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-HZFT
There are more but I think this is someone else becuase there is a record of him in 1883 in Ireland. He was living in the US at this point.
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I agree that the name of the sender of the email should be removed. However Jane McGee, I would think, was the owner at the time.
Maybe Lucas will tell us that from his research Jane McGee was Jane Kiernan. It would seem that Simon was her son.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT8W-QHW
Thanks for that information. I interpreted the email to mean that she is the present owner. I was confused by the present tense "is the owner".
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What records and what years?
Here they are:
Ireland, Petty Sessions Court Registers, 1828-1912
August 12, 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSY-HZFT
There are more but I think this is someone else becuase there is a record of him in 1883 in Ireland. He was living in the US at this point.
You'll need to look at them on Find My Past to find out which record collection each was from and the location for each entry and then decide which, if any, might be your Peter.
Petty Sessions registers include a variety of records such as court appearances for minor offences and small debts and lists of people who bought dog licences.
RootsChat rules don't allow us to do look-ups from paid subscription sites.
If you find any that you think may be relevant, come back and tell us.
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“There are more but I think this is someone else becuase there is a record of him in 1883 in Ireland. He was living in the US at this point.”
Do you mean that you think all of those you quote are someone else - not your Peter Kernan? As the list extends beyond 1880 to 1883, it seems unlikely that he is yours.
There is a death in 1884 for Peter Kernan, Oldcastle, which could be the one you have in your list.
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I've looked at a couple of maps of ireland in the 1820s to the 1830s and found out that moyglagh is NOT OLDCASTLE. Also, I also contacted the New Jersey archives if they have any obituaries of Peter. I think that this Peter Kernan in Oldcastle is not my Ancestor.
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I've found a potential record of Peter Kernan. This record takes place in Blanchardstown, right next to Dunboyne on July 30th, 1797.
Here is the image:
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I've looked at a couple of maps of ireland in the 1820s to the 1830s and found out that moyglagh is NOT OLDCASTLE.
You can see on the map of parishes in County Meath on National Library of Ireland Catholic registers website that the parishes of Dunboyne (where we found records relating to Peter Kernan & Jane Neil) is at the opposite side of County Meath to R.C. parish of Oldcastle.
Added.
Dunboyne R.C. parish https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0904
Oldcastle R.C. parish https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0951
Manoeuvre, move around and minimise or enlarge map to see where they are in relation to each other.
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I've found a potential record of Peter Kernan. This record takes place in Blanchardstown, right next to Dunboyne on July 30th, 1797.
Blanchardstown R.C. parish, Archdiocese of Dublin, County Dublin
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0466
Baptism Peter Kearnan, parents Thomas & Anna, sponsors Richard Davis, Maria Clynch?
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I found siblings of this 'Peter Kernan'.
Brigida Kernan
March 1, 1790
(https://i.postimg.cc/JhWw11nn/Screenshot-20221102-163216-Gallery.jpg)
Maria & Margarita Kernan
July 17, 1791
(https://i.postimg.cc/zvD77Qf8/Screenshot-20221102-160635-Gallery.jpg)
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Which records do you have where a Kernan is a sponsor or witness?
I am not sure how much research you have for Jane Neil but here is a bit of added info for you just in case.
Marriage July 10th 1824 Dunboyne
Peter Hughes and Margaret Neil
Witnesses Michael Neil and Peter Kiernan
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635064#page/41/mode/1up
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Which records do you have where a Kernan is a sponsor or witness?
I am not sure how much research you have for Jane Neil but here is a bit of added info for you just in case.
Marriage July 10th 1824 Dunboyne
Peter Hughes and Margaret Neil
Witnesses Michael Neil and Peter Kiernan
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635064#page/41/mode/1up
I was able to find a Jane Neill born in Blanchardstown. She was born to Michael Neil and Jane neé Plunlet. She was baptized on 21 February, 1803. I cannot confirm and find a birth record of Margaret.
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I read 'Plunket' not 'Punlet'. :)
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With regard to my earlier post, you may want to look for K*rnan in Dunboyne around the relevant time period.
Some are sponsors, others are a spouse.
As you say, they may have crossed from the next parish or they may be unrelated. However, they were around Dunboyne at the same time as Peter.
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I found siblings of this 'Peter Kernan'.
Brigida Kernan
March 1, 1790
Maria & Margarita Kernan
July 17, 1791
Baptisms of Maria and Margareta were in June not July.
Maria's sponsors Michael Kean, Mary Downy?
Margareta's sponsors Jacobus (James) Dixon, Cath Manning
Bridget's sponsors Joannes? (John) Byrn, Marg'ta Dickson
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0466
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I read 'Plunket' not 'Punlet'. :)
I agree.
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With regard to my earlier post, you may want to look for K*rnan in Dunboyne around the relevant time period.
Some are sponsors, others are a spouse.
As you say, they may have crossed from the next parish or they may be unrelated. However, they were around Dunboyne at the same time as Peter.
Another parish adjacent to Dunboyne is Maynooth.
Maynooth R.C. parish, County Kildare
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0486
Baptisms registers from 1814, marriage registers from 1806.
Census returns we found for Bartle Kernan, Peter's son, stated that he was born in County Kildare. (On the thread about Bartle Kernan.)
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We had this record for Bartle earlier on one of the threads
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635222#page/13/mode/1up
Kilcloon, Batterstown and Kilcock (adjacent to Dunboyne)
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With regard to my earlier post, you may want to look for K*rnan in Dunboyne around the relevant time period.
Some are sponsors, others are a spouse.
As you say, they may have crossed from the next parish or they may be unrelated. However, they were around Dunboyne at the same time as Peter.
Another parish adjacent to Dunboyne is Maynooth.
Maynooth R.C. parish, County Kildare
Census returns we found for Bartle Kernan, Peter's son, stated that he was born in County Kildare. (On the thread about Bartle Kernan.)
We had this record for Bartle earlier on one of the threads
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635222#page/13/mode/1up
Kilcloon, Batterstown and Kilcock (adjacent to Dunboyne)
Yes. I wonder if the family lived or moved around near the border of Kilcloon and Dunboyne parishes and near the border with County Kildare, perhaps where Dunboyne, Kilcloon and Maynooth R.C. parishes meet. A pointy bit of Co. Kildare and Maynooth R.C. parish sticks out between Dunboyne and Kilcloon R.C. parishes. Residence wasn't mentioned in the church registers.
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With regard to my earlier post, you may want to look for K*rnan in Dunboyne around the relevant time period.
Some are sponsors, others are a spouse.
As you say, they may have crossed from the next parish or they may be unrelated. However, they were around Dunboyne at the same time as Peter.
Dunboyne deaths register included abode. Began 1787. Examples picked out at random:
June 1790 Hugh Kiernan, Cornerstown? Comerstown?
April 1865 Mrs Bartle Kiernan, Prettanan?
I noticed a Peter Hughes died 1864. Heywood found a marriage of a Peter Hughes to a Neil.
Handwriting was neat in 1820s but degenerated to a scrawl by 1840s. Forenames of many married women and widows were omitted.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0904 Microfilm 04176/04
I couldn't match a civil death registration to Mrs Kiernan in 1865. Was hampered by not knowing her forename and by death registrations in 1865 not yet being visible on Irish Genealogy. ie. I'm not sure which registration district covered the parish. Some registration districts in the area crossed county borders.
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What is the Maiden name of Anna? Is there a marriage entry for Thoma (Thoma is a variant for Thomas) and Anna? Probably married in Dublin.
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What is the Maiden name of Anna? Is there a marriage entry for Thoma (Thoma is a variant for Thomas) and Anna? Probably married in Dublin.
Do you mean the Anna, mother in Blanchardstown parish baptism register in your replies 54 & 57? It saves us time if you give context to your replies. I had to scroll back to find mention of somebody named Anna.
To answer your first question. Maiden surnames of mothers weren't included in the Blanchardstown register when those baptisms happened.
Have you searched for Thomas Kernan marriages to a woman named Ann or something similar? Blanchardstown marriage register began 1775. That's very early for Catholic registers in Ireland.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0466
Blanchardstown R.C. parish is next to County Meath and very near County Kildare.
The family in Blanchardstown may be a red herring.
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I see there is a marriage, 6th August 1838, Blanchardstown for Peter Kearnan and Ann Brutton?
The residence is Hansfield which looks close to the Meath border.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633357#page/232/mode/1up
If he was the same Peter which you found, he would be around 40 years on this marriage which is possible.
However, it might just show that you are dealing with a surname found in that area.
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I am trying to locate a marriage record of Thoma Kearnan and Anna (maiden name unknown). They had 5 children, Brigida, Margarita, Maria, Peter and another Brigida all in Blanchardstown. I've looked at the witnesses and doesn't really help my research for their marriage record. I do not know what happened after their last child, Peter (1797).
*The whole family was Roman Catholic
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I am trying to locate a marriage record of Thoma Kearnan and Anna (maiden name unknown). They had 5 children, Brigida, Margarita, Maria, Peter and another Brigida all in Blanchardstown. I've looked at the witnesses and doesn't really help my research for their marriage record. I do not know what happened after their last child, Peter (1797).
*The whole family was Roman Catholic
Have you read the information posted for you by Maiden Stone in reply #69?
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I see there is a marriage, 6th August 1838, Blanchardstown for Peter Kearnan and Ann Brutton?
The residence is Hansfield which looks close to the Meath border.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633357#page/232/mode/1up
If he was the same Peter which you found, he would be around 40 years on this marriage which is possible.
However, it might just show that you are dealing with a surname found in that area.
Hansfield is in Blanchardstown.
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I am trying to locate a marriage record of Thoma Kearnan and Anna (maiden name unknown). They had 5 children, Brigida, Margarita, Maria, Peter and another Brigida all in Blanchardstown. I've looked at the witnesses and doesn't really help my research for their marriage record. I do not know what happened after their last child, Peter (1797).
*The whole family was Roman Catholic
Have you read the information posted for you by Maiden Stone in reply #69?