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Messages - Cadmanfamily

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1
London and Middlesex / Re: Charles Shirley Cadman - Married 20th August 1823, Mansfield, to Mary Hayes
« on: Thursday 04 July 13 15:28 BST (UK)  »
To jomcd967,

With at least three Charles Cadman's residing during the late 1700's /early 1800's in a reasonably confined area of north London, it seems to me it'll be difficult if not impossible to distinguish which of these is the 'right' Charles. It's not as if he has a second forename, especially a name other than that of a king or a well-known saint, which could rule out others that are inappropriate. If his name had been Charles Cedric Cadman, as an example, or something on those lines, it would have been 'a breeze' to trace him back to his formative years. 

Of the three marriages involving individuals named "Charles Cadman", that you kindly drew to my attention, the "Old Church, St. Pancras" candidate ..seems.. the most likely but this doesn't make it a fact. Equally the right Charles could have been one of the other two candidates, or some other Charles Cadman we still don't even know about.

Charles Shirley Cadman, s/o Charles (Snr.) and Millinora ..or Melnora.. Cadman, (nee Shirley) his mother, I believe had early connections with Edgware, Middlesex and Islington (I can't remember where I saw this).  CSC's son, Charles George Cadman, born 1823, is recorded in the 1841 census, I've been informed, as a butcher's apprentice in Chesterfield, Derbyshire, whilst residing at the village of Heath, approx. 4 miles south-east of that town.

If you require any further info or I've overlooked any point you raised, please let me know and I'll be glad to answer you if I can.  The $64,000 dollar question is: How can we proceed further with a number of "Charles Cadman's", to choose from with no way of establishing the ..true.. line of ancestry towards the beginning of the 1700's?   However, I am open to (constructive) suggestions.

 Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

2
London and Middlesex / Re: Charles Shirley Cadman - Married 20th August 1823, Mansfield, to Mary Hayes
« on: Thursday 04 July 13 12:06 BST (UK)  »
To jomcd967,

Thank you very much for your two posts, and I think you've found some genuine Cadman ancestors. Pieces of the jigsaw puzzle seem to be coming together. We have found references to "Crown Street", "Hoxton Square", "St. Leonard's church, Shoreditch" and "St Mary's church, Islington", there may be other significant references yet to add.

Regarding Charles Cadman (Snr.), his first wife seems to have been Susannah (m. 7 March 1792) (nee Seaney) but she sadly died and was buried, age 29, on 17 August 1793.  Three years later, Charles (Snr.) was recorded as "occupying property in Crown Street, in the Hoxton Square area of St. Leonard's (parish?), Shoreditch."  It seems that Charles (Snr.) was married at least once more after Susannah's death. There seems to have been a "Mary" (was Mary his wife or just a partner?), followed in May 1795, by Charles' marriage to a Melnora (or more likely 'Millinora') Shirley (her maiden surname). Other information that we have concerning this "Mary" was in 1796-97 she shows up in Shoreditch, St. Leonard's church, with a baptism of a daughter, Hannah, and a burial of an infant, Ann.  Millinora Cadman was not deceased and buried until 19 November 1816 at St. Leonard's, Shoreditch, age 46.  If I've interpreted the circumstances correctly, there seems to have been a period of overlap from 1793 to at least 1797, when Charles (Snr.) lived with two different female partners at the same time. Please correct me if I've got this wrong. 

Can we discover baptism and burial dates please for Charles (Snr.) and any info relating to the identity of his parents?   Thank you very much for your help sofar.

Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

3
London and Middlesex / Re: Charles Shirley Cadman - Married 20th August 1823, Mansfield, to Mary Hayes
« on: Wednesday 03 July 13 15:26 BST (UK)  »
To JaneyCanuck and avm228,

Thanks for the additional information re. Peter McVay, Mr. D. Reid and John Rouse - silk weaver.

Janey - I'm checking to see whether Noah's Ark Gardens and Crown Street, Hoxton still exist today, they'll probably be located somewhere near present-day Hoxton Square.  I suppose it's rather a tall order to expect any present-day references to Noah's Ark, whatever it may have been, but I'll continue looking.  Hoxton is a mile or so west of Shoreditch.  It seems there is a wide array of documents of various kinds which can be accessed ... the existence of which I've never heard of before, so wouldn't know how to begin calling them up on screen without the expert help that I'm receiving.  Thank you very much.

Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

4
London and Middlesex / Re: Charles Shirley Cadman - Married 20th August 1823, Mansfield, to Mary Hayes
« on: Wednesday 03 July 13 11:32 BST (UK)  »
To JaneyCanuck and avm228,

Thank you for your additional information. Noah's Ark pub, Deptford, in south London, near Greenwich, doesn't seem to be a very likely location in comparison to entries found in other documentation, i.e. "Noahs Ark Court, Hoxton" and that of Edmund Stallon "a cordwainer in
Noahs Ark, Hoxton".  It was either a building or a district ..in Hoxton.. north London which is fairly close to Shoreditch where other references have been found to early Cadman ancestors.

Thank you both once again for your efforts which are very much appreciated. If you are able to unearth anything further referring to pre-1840 Cadmans in the London area, or are able to identify exactly what "Noah's Ark, Hoxton" actually was, I would be very pleased to hear about it.

Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

5
London and Middlesex / Re: Cadman family of north London
« on: Wednesday 03 July 13 00:16 BST (UK)  »
To Noelle78,

You tried to make contact with me in August 2012 and my reply to you at that time included my e-mail address which I didn't realise is against the rules of RootsChat.com  So you had no means to contact me other than through the forum, and I was unaware that you didn't have a note of my e-mail address because it had been deleted by the Moderator from my reply.  I tried to send you a PM
(Personal Message) yesterday explaining the belatedness of my response, but unless you've posted the obligatory three messages on the forum, you would not have been able to receive the PM.  If you are still interested in making contact with me, I would be very pleased to hear from you. So, please post another message to me on the forum addressed to "CadmanFamily" and we'll take it from there.  I hope to hear from you.

With every good wish,
Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

6
London and Middlesex / Re: Early 'Cadman' ancestors living around Islington, north London
« on: Tuesday 02 July 13 16:02 BST (UK)  »
Hi,
I'm now trying to refine my search from 1832 towards the beginning of the 18th century and earlier if possible.  The parents of Charles Shirley Cadman are likely to have been Charles Cadman, widower, and his (second?) wife, Millinora Cadman (nee Shirley). They married on 6th May 1795 at Islington, St. Mary, and this seems to account for Charles Shirley Cadman's, somewhat odd, second forename.

Is it possible to find any baptism or burial records for Charles Shirley Cadman, *the elder, and his father Charles Cadman, widower. A burial was recorded at Shoreditch, St. Leonard, on 19th November 1816 of Millinora Cadman, age 46, "of Noah's Ark" (of all places).  There is evidence that a Charles Cadman (probably 'our' Charles) was occupying property in Crown Street, in the Hoxton Square area of St. Leonard's in 1796 as transcribed from Land Tax records.

*There was younger "Charles Shirley Cadman" baptised in 1832 who was probably a nephew of the elder (possibly deceased?) namesake, and whose father appears to have been a John Cadman, an umbrella maker. Any investigative help with this would be much appreciated.  It is conceivable that the demise of these individuals could have been among the first of those shown on post-1837 death certificates. Please be aware that I'm only interested in seeking Cadman family history, say, pre-1840.  Thank you.

Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

7
Derbyshire / Re: Charles Shirley Cadman - believed to be deceased by 1832
« on: Saturday 29 June 13 15:35 BST (UK)  »
Please note that, as Charles Shirley Cadman, late of Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire, seems to have had his origins in London/Middlesex, a 2nd thread with some interesting contributions, is currently running in order to cover that region. To gain access to that Forum please click on the following link:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,651417.10.html

Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

8
Derbyshire / Re: Charles Shirley Cadman - believed to have been deceased by 1832
« on: Saturday 29 June 13 10:50 BST (UK)  »
To Dizzifish and Sunflower,

Thank you very much for the additional information. I note that a John Shirley and Letitia Story were the witnesses of the marriage of Charles Cadman, widower, otp and Melnora [sic.] Shirley, spinster, otp, at Islington, St. Mary's, on 6th May 1795. If the above mentioned Charles Cadman was the father of Charles Shirley Cadman, is there any way to ascertain the identity of the former's father (or parents) and any details relating to the place of residence.  Can anyone enlighten me as to what a 'Bondsman' was?  Was this some kind of guarantor?

To Dizzifish - Thank you very much for sending me the copies of newspaper clippings reporting the marriage of Charles Shirley Cadman and Mary Cadman (nee Bettaney) on 20th Aug. 1823 and for the enlargement of one image.   :)

Best wishes,
Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

9
Derbyshire / Re: Charles Shirley Cadman - probably deceased by 1832
« on: Friday 28 June 13 15:50 BST (UK)  »
To Sunflower,
A contributor has drawn attention to a burial at Shoreditch, St. Leonard on 19th November 1816 of Millinora Cadman, age 46, of Noah's Ark. (what was this, I wonder - a pub?) This looks like the same person as 'Melnora' as both names sound very similar. Also a Charles Cadman (possibly Millinora's husband?) was occupying a property in Crown Street, in the Hoxton Square area of St. Leonard's Shoreditch in 1796 according to Land Tax records. I hope this helps.

Answering your earlier questions - I do not have a copy of the marriage licence of Charles Shirley Cadman and Mary Hay (Hayes or variant), only copies of newspaper cuttings, courtesy of Dizzifish, reporting the ceremony. Unfortunately, these do not mention the identity of the witnesses. I haven't looked at the original entry in the Mansfield records and am uncertain how I can call them up.

Geoff Ambridge "CadmanFamily"

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