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Hi (perhaps very distant cousin) cathayb

I haven't come across that particular branch of the Allman family before, but that's not to say that John is not one of ours.  I think the Allmans took on the task of single-handily populating the whole of Cheshire, using as few Christian names as possible.

It looks like Phoebe Allman died aged 32 in 1848 in Altrincham, Trafford so John would have been very young when he went to the States.  A search of (free) www.cheshirebmd.org.uk gives 9 Allman children born in Trafford from 1837-1848.  There is one John, with birth certificate number ALT/3/81 who may be yours.  You can order this certificate from the site by clicking the reference number and following the link.  I've ordered several certificates from this site before without problems and it's a lot cheaper than going via the paying sites.

The certificate should give you Phoebe's maiden name as well as confirming his father and enable you to search for the rest of the family.

There's another James, Phoebe & John Alman family in Congleton listed on the familysearch site, but I can't find any record of Phoebe's death in your time span in that area so this family may be plan B if the Trafford one doesn't give results.

Good hunting!

Hi Philip

Lovely to hear from you.  Elizabeth Stoddart is my maternal great grandmother and your description of "nan" is absolutely correct.  In the mid 1930's my mum was sent to live with her grandmother (Elizabeth) for several months whilst her own mum was ill.  My mum described Elizabeth as totally Victorian - small, thin, long black dress, grey hair pulled back severely in a bun and ruled with an iron fist. Elizabeth ran the fruit & vege shop from the front room of a terrace house and it was mum's job to let her know when customers arrived and to cut the bruises off apples so they could be sold for a penny each.  There was a very large portrait of Elizabeth which used to hang in the parlour and I would love to find that.

John did die in the workhouse on 14th April 1918.  I have his death certificate but it was a hospital at the time.  Since posting my initial request I've discovered that the first husband (Richard Green) didn't die at sea.  Family stories get twisted over the years.

Best wishes

Wilbs

Records show the baptism of Elizabeth Wilberforce on 22 August 1858 at St Michael and All Angels, Hawkshead, Lancashire, child of Mary Wilberforce, single woman. The most likely birth is Elizabeth Wilberforce born July 1858 at Ulverston, Lancashire (8e 560).

Before I buy another unwanted birth certificate I’m trying to find mother and daughter in the 1861 or 1871 censuses without luck. 1st starting place was the Ulverston Workhouse (R.G. 9/3168 Piece 3168, folio 114) but no sign there.

Of course baby Elizabeth could have died and mother Mary married, but a search of Lan-OPC records doesn’t show any marriages or deaths for Wilberforce. 

Suggestions?

Best wishes

Wilbs

Thank you Wilcoxon & Heywood.  Although not the breakthrough wished for these a a few more bits to add to the picture and a step forward.  I didn't know that 76 Warwick street contained a shop (Grace ran a laundry from there and I always imagined it in a dark basement, but a shop frontage is a bit more respectable) and you have clarified the Hendham Vale address as 113.

Next stage for me would be to look at the Jacques family and see if we have names in common.

Just one question - the repeat ad in the Liverpool Mercury in Sept 1886, was it for house & shop rental or milkmaid? 

Thank you

Wilbs

Me again.

Sorry my Catholic Nun theory has gone.  The ladies concerned were Grace Cowper born Hammersmith in 1854 and Ada Bellamy born London 1845.  I have traced them forward thought the 1891, 1901 & 1911 censuses so they are not mine.

Best wishes
wilbs