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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Surname Phillips-Williams
« on: Thursday 23 May 24 21:31 BST (UK) »Not sure whether this is a coincidence or there is some connection - There is a Lilian Torre marries a William B(ernard) P(Phillips) Williams in Holborn 3rd 1/4 of 1933. On the 1939 register William and Lilian are now Phillips-Williams and William is a school master in Felixstowe. Could Lilian be related to Herbert Torr
When Ronald is married on all three occasion his name is recorded under both Williams and Phillips-Williams and also the same with his brother, who looks like is adopted by the same couple, with a slight first name change.
Can't find a birth for either William Bernard Phillips Williams in 1908 or Lilian Torre in 1905. Lilian dies in 1974 but her dob is the same as 1939 except the year is 1903 not 1905 and William B dies in 1989.
Added: looks like Lilian Torr was born in 1903 in Derby and that Lilian may have been Herbert's sister.
Gam Yam.
Something you said a week or so ago keeps coming back to me.
You said that Ronald's brother looks like he is adopted by the same couple (as Ronald), but with a SLIGHT FIRST NAME change.
It would make sense, that his name was changed to William but I was just wondering what your basis for thinking Kenneth had his first name changed. Did you find anything which would lead to that conclusion, or was it just an inkling you had?
There is a marriage in the June 1/4 1960 in Ilford, same place as Ronald was married, For a William K. The marriage is recorded as both Williams and Phillips-Williams, the same as Ronald. My inkling from that is this is likely to be Ronald's brother and the K is for Kenneth, William having been added to his name.
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Cumberland / Re: 39 Aglionby Street Carlisle
« on: Wednesday 22 May 24 20:16 BST (UK) »
Some of the houses were built as early as 1869, mentioned in Carlisle Patriot, 11th June 1869 and no 10 was for sale in 1874. However, they must have still been building on the street for a while as there is a new house for let, May 1883 Carlisle Patriot. There are also 3 large houses built after 1899, (not on the 1899 map) although only one of them is on Aglionby Street (29A), the other two have entrances on opposite sides of Warwick Square.
I think this may be the plans for block with no 39 included. Unfortunately its not dated!
https://cumbriaimagebank.org.uk/imagefiles/jpgh/ct46823.jpg
This is the 1880 map and the houses that included 39 don't appear to be on it, so looks like it was built after 1881.
https://cumbriaimagebank.org.uk/historicalmaps.php?file=008
I think this may be the plans for block with no 39 included. Unfortunately its not dated!
https://cumbriaimagebank.org.uk/imagefiles/jpgh/ct46823.jpg
This is the 1880 map and the houses that included 39 don't appear to be on it, so looks like it was built after 1881.
https://cumbriaimagebank.org.uk/historicalmaps.php?file=008
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Cumberland Completed Lookups / Re: Request CATHOLIC RECORDS (1813-1814) for McDonald aka McDonnell
« on: Sunday 19 May 24 09:31 BST (UK) »Good to hear. Nothing worse than clains with no sources.
Out of curiosity, Is it in Latin or English ?
Having done family research using the records for this particular Catholic church, and taken many copies, they are in Latin, but, on the whole, are fairly easy to read.
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Family History Beginners Board / Re: would Lyon have been a. name a. non jewish family would. have used
« on: Saturday 18 May 24 18:27 BST (UK) »
The Lyon name is part of the Scottish nobility, the Earls of Strathmore, and the Celtic Clan Lyon dates back to the 1300's and has origins in Anglo French nobility so not purely a Jewish name. With it origins in noble families, can't imagine it wasn't considered a respectable name in polite conservative society of Georgian England.
The Queen Mother was Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and the daughter of the 14th Earl of Strathmore.
The Queen Mother was Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and the daughter of the 14th Earl of Strathmore.
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Lincolnshire / Re: Marriage 1941
« on: Friday 17 May 24 12:03 BST (UK) »Morning mckha489.
I’ll think hard about any certificates, but I’m confused by the fact that if this couple are the parents of ‘Lily Woollas’, it can’t be the same person as Teresa Budlin who married Harry Hibbert in 1934, as their MC shows Teresa’s father as James William Budlin, fruiterer in Brackley.
Maybe there was some child/name swapping going on?
The information on certificates is only as good or true as the person giving the information wants to give.
The children of Teresa and Harry are the siblings of your cousin, is there information that could be founded via him.
I think Theresa = Lily and for some reason made up her name and her father’s at the marriage.
But that’s why I think all the birth certs need to be seen to glean whatever clues you can from them.
It would be worth also contacting the owner of that other tree which has Theresa with another alias after she leaves Henry HIBBERT. To see what family stories they have.
Per reply #56
Have to agree with you mckha489, that Lily = Teresa, so many coincidences and a birth certificate may provide some further information, as would trying to contact some of the other tree owners, both from the Hibbert and McKee/Burke trees.
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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Surname Phillips-Williams
« on: Sunday 12 May 24 21:59 BST (UK) »
Not sure whether this is a coincidence or there is some connection - There is a Lilian Torre marries a William B(ernard) P(Phillips) Williams in Holborn 3rd 1/4 of 1933. On the 1939 register William and Lilian are now Phillips-Williams and William is a school master in Felixstowe. Could Lilian be related to Herbert Torr
When Ronald is married on all three occasion his name is recorded under both Williams and Phillips-Williams and also the same with his brother, who looks like is adopted by the same couple, with a slight first name change.
Can't find a birth for either William Bernard Phillips Williams in 1908 or Lilian Torre in 1905. Lilian dies in 1974 but her dob is the same as 1939 except the year is 1903 not 1905 and William B dies in 1989.
Added: looks like Lilian Torr was born in 1903 in Derby and that Lilian may have been Herbert's sister.
When Ronald is married on all three occasion his name is recorded under both Williams and Phillips-Williams and also the same with his brother, who looks like is adopted by the same couple, with a slight first name change.
Can't find a birth for either William Bernard Phillips Williams in 1908 or Lilian Torre in 1905. Lilian dies in 1974 but her dob is the same as 1939 except the year is 1903 not 1905 and William B dies in 1989.
Added: looks like Lilian Torr was born in 1903 in Derby and that Lilian may have been Herbert's sister.
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Lincolnshire / Re: Marriage 1941
« on: Saturday 27 April 24 23:21 BST (UK) »
There are some on line trees (Anc**) where "Teresa" appears to turn up in 1947 in Chatham, but as Teresa Burke, born in 1916. She is has 3 Children with D R McKee. The first child has MMN as Burke, and the next 2, MMN is "Hibbert". All children are registered under both parents surnames. Teresa dies in 1961. It may not be "Teresa/Lily", it does seem a bit random and the connection might just be speculation from the owners.
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Lincolnshire / Re: Marriage 1941
« on: Wednesday 24 April 24 23:48 BST (UK) »
Just a thought - If Lily/Teresa are the same person and was born in 1916 and not as the marriage cert suggests 1911, she would have been a minor (17) when she married Harry - maybe married without parental permission? That might give rise to not being quite so truthful with her details!