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Messages - jj.carroll

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127
Scotland / Re: Patrick (John) GAFFIGAN, born in Ireland lived in Scotland
« on: Saturday 28 July 07 17:17 BST (UK)  »
Go to bed!  As it is here, we just got up - well have been up for a few hours. 

Although I am from the San Francisco area (it's Sanrancisco to the natives), for my retirement away from advocacy my wife has chosen to move me to Utah in the high desert region.  We are only 25 miles from the LDS family history centre, but it is like a thousand to get me to go to Salt Lake City because of my companion - the Beamer.  He does not do any research, because I guess he is a Cocker Spaniel.  So, most of my stuff is vicarious, looking over the postings of others while I try to sort out the McCarrolls, the McCuskers, the Gaffigans and the rest, like the Crennans.

Every once in a while I do go over to one of the on-line centres, but it is not like the Salt Lake City one that I visited when I first started (and ran into the problem of Owen and Eugene). 

You have given me (and to some of the other posters) quite a lot of information that we can use in our searches, and every little bit helps.  Thank you again,  jjc 


128
Scotland / Re: Patrick (John) GAFFIGAN, born in Ireland lived in Scotland
« on: Saturday 28 July 07 16:11 BST (UK)  »
Thank you for sharing your methods with everyone on this list (and I suspect that a few will repost it to other lists as it really does show some insight).  Sometimes it is that little kernel that helps.

As to highland dress:  I picked that up when a distant cousin sent me the information from John's Journal.  Mary was a "sewer" and had some time on the boats with the family as she sailed from Glasgow to New York, to Nicaragua to San Francisco, and it gave her something to do.  Throughout his life I understand that he "denied" his Irish heritage and clung to the Scots thing, and he lived among the Irish in San Francisco.  To put it kindly, I think he was a bit off of his rocker, though he was talented in other aspects - and actually, a great organizer and labor leader.

Somehow they had the two kids, Tom and John, born on the same date and because he was a Royal Horsetrader the family received special treatment from the Queen.  Well, that was the story!  Maybe that was why my grandmother Agnes was so closed mouth about her life, and that of her father.  But she had a couple of skeletons in her closet too.  Look at the posting that I made for Ireland, Co. Louth about her marriage.

Again, thank you very much. jjc

129
Tyrone / McCARROLL family from the Eskra - Fintona - Beragh area.
« on: Saturday 28 July 07 15:30 BST (UK)  »
My great grandfather, OWEN (or Eugene) McCARROLL, came from the townland of Corkhill, (or Corkill as many of the recorded records indicate) in the civil parish of Clogher, County Tyrone. He was baptised and buried in Eskra (Eskragh) R.C. graveyard. He married CATHERINE McCUSKER in Fintona’s R.C. chapel in Donacavey.

OWEN McCARROLL was the son of Owen or Eugene and Catherine, who were farmers in Corkhill; he was born about 1840 in Donacavey. When he married my great grandmother he was registered as Eugene, but he signed the register as Owen, and went by that name throughout his life.

CATHERINE McCUSKER came from the townland of Augharonan, also in Donacavey. They were wed on 25 June 1867 in my great grandmother’s church in Donacavey. Little is known of my great grandmother's family but we can make out a few facts about Catherine and how she existed.

Owen and Catherine had seven children: Ellen, b. 1871 - 1917, married Andrew BOGAN; Patrick (also known as The Yank), b. 1873 - ? (He appears to have been buried in the family plot at Eskragh); and, Thomas, b. 1875 - ? married to Catherine (Kitty) DALY (DALEY?) and emigrated to USA, perhaps from Newtownsaville.

Owen, b. 1877 - ?, and he married Brigid CONROY in Beragh, and lived in Curr. My grandfather was next: Michael Joseph (Mickey), b. 1879 – d. 1924. Then there were: Jane, b. 1871; and Hugh, b. 1883, both of whom lived in Corkill with their mother Catherine until her death in 1916.

When Patrick was baptised on 7 March 1873, the family name given was Owen CARROLL, and Catherine’s maiden name was McKUSKAR. We have no other record that this was a common practice, but it seems that in the States those that immigrated were known as Carrolls.

The family farm house in Corkill was there when I visited, but was removed about November 1982. I understand that the property is possibly owned by DEVINE family, who are also cousins.

Catherine McCusker's father was Patrick and she was born circa 1846 – 1851; she married Owen at "full age." (McCOSKER and McKUSKER may be variants of the name.) But, as is the case with most old Irish records, there is a discrepancy for the 1911 census lists herself as a 60 yr old widow while the 1901 census listed Catherine as a 45 year old widow. That may be the result of the old age pensions that went into place in 1908. She had a possible sibling: John McCUSKER of Legmaghery, but little is known of him except he was a single farmer.

My grandmother Agnes Bridget, or “Aggie,” was born around 1888 in San Francisco, California, USA to John AMOS GAFFIGAN (see another posting dealing with the Gaffigans on this site) and Maggie CRENNAN. My grandmother was described in the San Francisco Call Index upon her death as being Mary Agnes (Aggie) Bridget Crennan Carroll.

She left for Ireland when she reached majority, but we do not know if she accompanied Mickey McCarroll on that journey. But instead of being married in the Fintona area, where he chose to settle after residing in Omagh at least until 1914, they were wed on 25 June 1912, at St. Patrick’s Church in Dundalk, County Louth. We don't even know if they traveled together, or where in Ireland they landed, or where they stayed before they left for County Tyrone.

Michael Joseph Carroll had migrated to California in 1887, aboard the Etruria, to join his brothers in San Francisco: Thomas and Patrick, who had become USA citizens. In 1904 he also gained US citizenship. After sometime in the Bay Area he then returned to Fintona to get married and begin a family in 1912. There is some speculation that he was ill in California and returned to Ireland because of that reason, and had recovered.

Mickey became a publican/auctioneer/seller of shoes and coffins on Main Street in Fintona (the pub owned by the late Mr. Francis McAtee). Michael and Agnes had a number of children, including my father: Michael Joseph, b. 25 March 1914 in Omagh; Patrick Eugene, b. 1915 who passed away after three days; Mary Catherine (who became Maura when she migrated to the USA), 1917 and passed away in 2004; Thomas Leo, b. 1918; Bernadette Anthony, b. 1919; and, Kevin Barry, b. 1921.

There was some gossip that he purchased the public house in Fintona from his mother's estate or from some relative of the McCuskers. And then there were stories that the family was to return to San Francisco when he became ill and passed away.

My grandfather, Mickey McCarroll, was to pass away at age 44 in Omagh. After they had sold the pub in Fintona’s main street, my grandmother packed up the children and she returned to San Francisco. Their voyage was on the S.S. Cameronia, a Lloyd’s mail ship which left from the Clyde in Scotland and picked up passengers at Moville, near Derry.

130
Scotland / Re: Patrick (John) GAFFIGAN, born in Ireland lived in Scotland
« on: Saturday 28 July 07 14:34 BST (UK)  »
I would love to say that this is the one, but - being hardened to the visitudes of the search - there are just too many question marks that have to be settled before I could make that statement. 

The thing is that you have found a Mary Amos, and that has been a problem all along. 

Mary had two sisters residing in San Francisco in 1867, an Isabella or Isabell CAMPBELL and an Ann or Anna (possibly McKee) Amos.  We have no information on them either, as I found them through John's "Journal."

The dates are pretty good (there was some reference to his birthdate and Queen Victoria's, and his arrival in San Francisco in a Highlands dress; but also he traveled with Tom Thumb, hummmmm).   The place is right, it matches another official date.  But McGeoch, cattle dealer, and John - these are problems, along with the other questions.

The heritage question is answered by the factoring in of Izzy's and Annie's answers to the census takers in the U.S.  They were indeed Irish, and could have been troubled by the differing dialects.

I think that Patrick was a Patrick and possibly a John, like Patrick John.  Again, this was anecdotal.  And we found that it was just a story about being a Royal Horsetrader (whatever that was...), probably made up by Mary to impress her siblings.  He was a carter according to the census, and I believe that it is a stretch to call him a dealer in cattle - but it could be, could be!

As you have found, so many times, that there is just a modicum of "truth" factored into these searches that sometimes we just grasp that and then run to the nearest exit shouting to the world, Eureka, we found it!

But, having said this, I do not want to let it go until we search a little further.  There are too many little things that fit that make it sensible, given that a lot of what we look at has that bit in it.  Thank you very much for accepting this challenge.  jjc 


131
Scotland / Re: Patrick (John) GAFFIGAN, born in Ireland lived in Scotland
« on: Friday 27 July 07 20:25 BST (UK)  »
Tom, on the LDS treatment that finds its way into IGI, I ran into a brick wall with them on my great grandfather's name.  We searched and searched for an Owen and Catherine McCarroll, and we had the approximate dates - but to no avail.  Came to find out that the "official" reason was that he was Eugene, but he never went by that name and was buried by the name of Owen.  He showed on the marriage certificate that he was an Owen, and he marked his "x" as an Owen, but it stayed as a Eugene.  I went so far as to document this for IGI, but to no avail.  The records do show that he was an Eugene, but it also shows that he was an Owen.  That was Fintona, Donacavey Parish, in County Tyrone.  Just some back-up rationale for treating most of these Mormon transcriptions with a little bit of caution.  jjc

132
Scotland / Re: Patrick (John) GAFFIGAN, born in Ireland lived in Scotland
« on: Friday 27 July 07 20:17 BST (UK)  »
Tom, the problem is that this was an 1866 manifest and they sailed a year later, in July 1867.  The data that I showed came from at least four different sources, or should I say from four different people.  (Perhaps, they had the same source.)  Thanks for trying, and that may be the reason I came up blank on some of my own searches, i.e., had the wrong sailing date.  jjc

133
Ireland / AMOS sisters; Isabella, Anna and Mary - prior to 1867
« on: Friday 27 July 07 19:19 BST (UK)  »
In the search for my great grandfather, JOHN AMOS GAFFIGAN, we found that he possibly came to the States with his mother and brother in July 1867 aboard the SS Iowa from Glasgow (with a stop-over at Moville, Donegal), and then aboard the Moses Taylor from Nicaragua to San Francisco, we have run into an identification problem. 

It seems as that MARY AMOS GAFFIGAN (she apparently was widowed from Patrick Gaffigan in Scotland) and her children were sponsored by either one or both of her sisters, who were at the time residing in San Francisco. They had stopped earlier in New Haven, Conn. to get bearings from either their relatives or sponsors, but have no idea who that might be..

The Gaffigans, who had started out in Scotland, were met in San Francisco by a MRS. CHARLES (ISABELLA) CAMPBELL, who lived at #6 Thompson Avenue, in the South Park area of San Francisco.

The other sister was Miss ANNIE AMOS of #5 South Park or Thompson Avenue.  It may be that Anna, or Annie, was previously married to a McKEE, according to compilations of census data.  Whether by divorce or being widowed we believe that she went by that name later in life.  As it was indicated in census data, all three of the ladies had been born in Ireland, but where - we simply do not know.

It appeared that they they first lived on the other side of the South Park or Thompson Avenue the South Park Matt House, in the home of Annie.  Mary’s brother-in-law was Mr. CHARLES CAMPBELL who was evidently employed as a “collar maker” at the Kimball Company, at 4th and Bryant.

They lived on that block that also had a Miss Kelly and her daughter, the CRENNAN family (John married a MAGGIE CRENNAN), the Driscolls, and the Goodenoughlys. Catherine's daughter, Maggie, had a sister named Rosa, and appeared that they were possibly from New York.  We don’t know that background.  But, according to Catherine’s obituary and other census data she was born in County Leix in Ireland.

The Gaffigans landed about August 1867 and had to move to Alameda in 1868 with Annie Amos because of the San Francisco earthquake that year.  They resided with a Dr. Lambert for the rest of the year and returned to San Francisco in 1869, where they resided with a Mr. James O'Connell who had a stationary and book store at 310 5th street.

We would like to confirm that these ladies were the sisters of Mary Amos Gaffigan, and would like to see just where they had come from in Ireland before they were in San Francisco. 

134
Scotland / Re: Patrick (John) GAFFIGAN, born in Ireland lived in Scotland
« on: Friday 27 July 07 17:15 BST (UK)  »
Gaffigans, John and Maggie
The information contained on the Gaffigans, including Agnes B. Gaffigan when she was a little girl, will be found in the following documents.

See U.S. 1900, CA, SF, E.D. 78, Sheet 9A, at the 3008 25th Street, San Francisco address:
 
This census record also reports John Gaffigan’s arrival in the U.S., as 1867, at the age of 10.
The births of most of the children are listed in the Call Index, an index of newspaper announcements.  The marriage is not listed, but the given age of the oldest child, Arthur, makes it likely that the marriage took place about 1879. 
The parents appear in the California Death Index [CADI]: Margaret Gaffigan, d. 14 November 1915, SF, 57 {1858}; and John Gaffigan, d. 18 July 1938, in Contra Costa County, at age 85 {which would make his birth date as 1853, 1857}. 
Most of the children can also be located:

Given   Middle   Married   M-maiden   F-name   Born   Died   Co. of Death
Arthur            Gaffigan   19 April 1880   26 July 1953   San Francisco
Albert            Gaffigan   23 Oct. 1882   10 Apr. 1951   San Francisco
John   Amos      Kreenan   Gaffigan   31 Aug. 1884   23 Aug. 1946   San Mateo
Mary                     
Aggie [Agnes]   Bridget   Carroll   Crennan   Gahigan   15 Sept. 1888   9 July 1958   Los Angeles
Catherine   Lillie   Petty[1]         June 1891      
Clara               Aug. 1899      

In 1910 U.S. Census, the family is located at 105 Diamond.
John has not been located in U.S. Census of 1920. 
But in 1930 census, he was indexed as John Faffigan [sic] as a boarder at 269 2nd Street in SF, San Francisco.  He reported himself as being 76 years old {giving his birth date as1854, not 1853 or 1857}; while widowed, he married at 21 {1878 – using his 1900 Census year of birth}, arrived U.S. 1866, and his occupation was a printer. 
The 1890 San Francisco Great Register of Voters lists a John Amos Gaffigan, 34 {another discrepancy giving his date of birth as 1856}, birthplace was in Scotland; his residence at that time was 713 Valencia St, San Francisco.
When the U.S. 1870, California, SF, 10th Ward, 4th Precinct, at pg. 119 is compared we find that: Mary Gaffigan [35, b. Ireland, laundress], Thomas Gaffigan [13, b. Scotland], John Gaffigan [11, b. Scotland] reside in the household of James O’Connell [40, b. Ireland, bookseller].  It is possible that this is an early record of John. 
It is also possible that these are the persons who arrived at New York, 1 July 1867, aboard the Iowa, o/o Glasgow because the ship’s manifest lists: Mary Goffigan [age 35, born in Ireland], Thomas Goffigan [age 8, born in Ireland], and John Goffigan [age 6, born in Ireland].  The problem is with the age, however, because this would make his birth date as 1861. Alternatively, the age could be wrong in the manifest.
A passenger list for the S.S. Cameronia, Document 62, No. 60, manifest line 0017, page 0376, which left Londonderry (Moville) on 15 August 1914 bound for Ellis Island which arrived 23 August 1914, lists John Gaffigan as returning to the United States.  It also indicates that he was naturalized as a U.S. Citizen on 8 July 1879 in San Francisco before Judge {Pennie}, at the age of 21. 

There are no U.S. 1860 or U.S. 1870 records in California for a Margaret Kreenan, Creenan or Crenan. 
But there was in 1870 where she is listed a Maggie Gaffigan in California Census Roll, 79_76, Family History Film 1254076, page 164B. John Gaffigan was shown as being 23 years old, born in Scotland (1857), with his mother and father being born in Ireland.
However, there is a record for a Margaret Kiernan in U.S. 1870, California, San Francisco; she was 12 at that time {1858}. She was the daughter of Catherine Kiernan [age 44, born in Ireland].  This would probably be the Catherine Kiernan identified in the voting records of 1860 as it dates to 1828.  There were other children: Mary [14], Annie [10] and Agnes [6], all born in California. 
In U.S. 1860, California, San Francisco, 10th Ward, pg. 74 there appears: Philip Kiernan [x-Kairnen, 36, b. Ireland], was married to Catharine Kiernan [age 32 {1828}, b. Ireland].  They had children: Mary C. [5], Margaret F. [2], Anne M. [1], all born in California. 
There are Call Index records for Philip Kiernan, 49, who died in 1869 {b. in 1820} and Katherine Kiernan, 50, whose death was reported in 1878 {giving her a birthdates of 1828}, whose death was reported in 1878 {giving her a birthdates of 1828}.

Unfortunately, the 1861 census data was in a TIF and does not correspond to anything like english to me.  It was found on Ancestry.co.uk according to one of the people that responded.  It was about Patrick Gaffigan, born about 1822 in Ireland, and the registration district was 597, Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, and it was Morton's Back Land (2).

John and Thomas were shown as household members (along with Mary) and they were given as age 2 for John and age 5 for Thomas.

The birthplaces given was Scotland for the two boys in the census data for them, but some of the census data is missing due to the 1906 Earthquake and Fire in San Francisco.  Both the 1880 and 1900 census have John born about 1857, while the 1910 shows that he was born in 1858.

Hope this will help.  jj

135
Scotland / Re: Patrick (John) GAFFIGAN, born in Ireland lived in Scotland
« on: Friday 27 July 07 16:04 BST (UK)  »
When I first started out looking at materials for John A. Gaffigan all that I had were anecdotal information from my aunt (who really was a bit unreliable, but there are reasons for that) and my grandmother was very closed mouth about anything in her past. 

Then I got a post from one site that said they had a journal and would share it with me.  But, like a lot of things that we use but don't know the veracity of of, it was a make-believe story told to the journal after the fact.  Some of it was useful though in discounting far-fetched stories.

Then I met a Scot who was doing some volunteer work on the Irish connections and we tried to unravel the stuff that we had.  But the only things that we had were the Journal and the faulty memories.  We found two entries in the census data, and they seemed to be both correct but the married female was not.  There was adequate information to accept either of them (Amos and Sarah were names that had been mentioned), and then we found that Mary Amos was the only thing that we could rely upon - and that came after when she left for America with the two children.

So it was that the census data was the only thing that we could rely upon, and her statement in later years for census data that she was a widow.  We did not have the births of the two children: John and Thomas, only anecdotal information that said their parents were from Ireland.  We did not have any death certifications for Patrick, but we knew that he did not go with Mary to America.  Her trail does contain more information when she arrived in San Francisco, however.  We do know that she had two sisters, that they met in San Francisco, we know that they were born in Ireland, but we do not know anything of their prior history.

So, I keep updating what little information about Patrick Gaffigan and Mary Amos, and their children John and Thomas that I can get - and rely upon that 1861 Scot's census data until more information becomes available.

I do know that John was a strange person, but he always said he was a Scot - even when he was living among all of those Irishmen in San Francisco.  And, some of the stories that he told of himself, and his parents, were quite comedic.

We are very puzzled by the fact that there was no record of their births, or baptisms.  And of the father Patrick's death.  The only other record that we have of these days in Scotland and Ireland have to do with the manifest of the ship that they sailed on that left from Glasgow and Moville.  It was the Iowa, but there the transcriptions led us on a merry chase because some of it was Goffigan, some of it Gaffigan.  So the problem with the McGaffigan spelling is something that we just have to take (like our McCARROLL and CARROLL names).

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