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Messages - Alan of Kaslo

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1
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Help please to find parents/siblings of Margaret HICK/S of Selby
« on: Saturday 08 June 24 18:11 BST (UK)  »
Quote
I wonder if A was Ann or Annie?

Yes... Pinetree mentioned that earlier. Then they went and searched every Martha birth in York and one popped up for a Martha Ann Witchelow 1879. The mother was listed as Busby. Pinetree very graciously purchased the record and when opened it said mother was Jane Bedford formally Busby.

The father's name was Robert Henry Witchelow. Thank you Pinetree!

Annie Bedford = Martha Ann Witchelow

Jane Bedford Busby signed up for Banns and listed the marriage but never followed through with a ceremony. Jane and Robert did not marry. They married other people. In 1884 Robert married Caroline Crouch and moved to the USA. Martha Annie married James Early in 1881 and moved to Londonderry.

The mystery is solved.

I plugged Witchelow into my DNA screen and it went crazy with connections. It's a fit.

Thank you for the help and comments.  Thank you Pinetree for finding the needle in the haystack.

Attached:   The woman herself ...  Martha Ann Laing Robinson Witchelow. My great grandmother. Not a Bedford after all but her mother married one and her siblings were fathered by William Bedford.

2
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Help please to find parents/siblings of Margaret HICK/S of Selby
« on: Thursday 06 June 24 14:25 BST (UK)  »
Thank you!

That solves the mystery of the son William ...he belongs to the engineman who is 74 years old.

I think I'm all set straight now on William Bedford 1838-1875 . Sadly just took him out of my family tree where he has sat for years...  I'll keep looking for Annie Bedford's 1879/1880 birth but I'm not so sure it will state the correct father even if I find it. Anyhow, I'm happy with everything.

Cheers.

3
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Help please to find parents/siblings of Margaret HICK/S of Selby
« on: Thursday 06 June 24 01:23 BST (UK)  »
My goal is to determine whether the William Bedford Engine driver who died 1875 is the same William Bedford that married Jane Busby in 1866.

Earlier in this very thread the poster said:

Quote
Had a look on my selby deaths 1854-1991. this is all can find.
Thomas Bedford age 71.( JOINER) Died 18th june.
address Audus street selby.plot 75.
William bedford .railway guard .age 37.died 27th july 1875
 address Audus street .selby plot 76.

It appears that the engineman William Bedford in the wills probate is also listed as railway guard in whatever death index the poster was referencing. Cross-referencing with the GRO that WB was 37 years old. It also means that William had a son named William. Which is problematic because neither Jane Busby nor his first wife Mary Alice Tyson had a son named William. It's entirely possible he a son before the first wedding in 1861. He was 23 for that first marriage.

So... putting all the clues together:

-Marriage doc between William Bedford and Jane Busby says he was born 1838 , his father was Thomas the joiner.
-Poster earlier mentioned graves for William Bedford age 37 with father Thomas joiner

Therefore William Bedford who died in Selby 1875 aged 37 engine-man/railway guard was the same person who married Jane Busby. The last child he had with her would have been Louisa in 1875. My grandmother born 1879 must be from another man and I'm assuming that would be the man she marries a year later.

At any rate , thanks so much for the space to post this and the responses. Sometimes it's helpful to know you are not related to someone you thought you were. I prefer to have correct information in my family tree wherever possible.

It can take a lot of searching to sort this stuff out!

Thanks again

4
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Help please to find parents/siblings of Margaret HICK/S of Selby
« on: Wednesday 05 June 24 20:49 BST (UK)  »
Yes , it got posted previously by Pintree... thanks though. I do appreciate.

William Bedford's first marriage:

Quote
21 April 1861 marries Mary Alice Tyson in Manchester - father given as Thomas Bedford, joiner - ages of couple on marriage record are a bit out but due to further findings below I think it is William from Selby.

Then he married Jane Busby 1866 (document shared earlier)

Jane Busby Bedford was a widow by 1881 census but it's unclear if William Bedford died in 1875 as shared or if he died later such as 1879 ...which would mean he could father my grandmother Annie Bedford who was born in 1879/1880 (birth document not found).

Searching the GRO for deaths around  1879 for William Bedford and making the age around 41 (born 1838) ... it narrows it down to one:

Quote
Name:    Age at Death (in years): 
   BEDFORD, WILLIAM  THOMAS      39 
GRO Reference: 1880  D Quarter in HUDDERSFIELD  Volume 09A  Page 263

Interesting for a few reasons ... It's after 1879 birth for Annie , the middle name is Thomas and Huddersfield is 20 miles from Leeds ...

I guess the only way to really know is to order the document and see if he was railway employed.

5
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Help please to find parents/siblings of Margaret HICK/S of Selby
« on: Wednesday 05 June 24 19:53 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for taking the time. I appreciate it!

There is this one also:

    Bedford, Margaret        BUOBY     
GRO Reference: 1869  J Quarter in THIRSK  Volume 09D  Page 348

Also... There is a fellow named William Bedford in the 1871 census living at Deptford St Paul, Kent, England. His info is here:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB63-9RJ

Quote
Name   William Bedford
Sex   Male
Age   35
Birth Year (Estimated)   1836
Birthplace   Leeds, Yorkshire
Marital Status   Married
Occupation   Railway Engine Driver
Relationship to Head of Household   Head
Relationship Code   Head
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1871
Event Place   Deptford St Paul, Kent, England, United Kingdom

Then I finally found William Bedford and Jane Busby in 1871 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/sources/viewedit/S3M1-N4M?context

Now I can see that there were 2 William Bedford's born around the same time from Leeds area that did railway work. The person with that familysearch page lists William Bedford's dying in 1879 but then goes and links to the 1875 death info. I am thankful they posted the 1871 census though.

So could there be two railwaymen William Bedford's born in Selby/Leeds around 1838? The one in Deptford was an engine driver and my William  was more of a porter/signalman/guard.

Any help greatly appreciated!

*attached* snip of the proper William Bedford in 1871 census

6
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Help please to find parents/siblings of Margaret HICK/S of Selby
« on: Wednesday 05 June 24 01:16 BST (UK)  »
Thanks a lot for the responses. I appreciate the time...

Someone mentioned to me that the 1875 death of William Bedford in Selby states that his son William Bedford is a beneficiary. Since William only had girls with Jane Bedford from what i can gather , it seems that this William son would have to be from the first marriage. Thanks for the tip on who his first wife was! I had seen that name in the GRO earlier. I'll have to check and see if I can see a son William by the same woman.

Also thanks for mentioning the possibility of Martha A possibly being Annie. I hadn't thought of that. The age lines up. I had been perturbed that I couldn't find Annie living with Jane and the sisters at the Selby workhouse.

I'll do some digging and come back with anything I can find. Meanwhile i'll digest what you all have shared here.

Quote
Do you happen to know where and when Jane (Busby) Bedford died? I can’t find her after 1881 census.

1881 Jane Busby Bedford was in the Selby workhouse with her daughters. Also in 1881 her fortunes changed and she married a tailor named James Hallcourt Early in Selby. Then they moved to Londonderry and had a few kids , eventually moving back to Glasgow. They start showing up in Glasgow census in 1901...as Jane Early age 56 Anderston. She lives with James and some kids that were born in Ireland. Annie Bedford is 22 at the time and marries a Laing...he dies and then she marries my grandfather James Robinson.

I've seen that before where a father listed on a birth doc had actually been dead for several years. With one relative they even wrote "can't possibly be the father as listed father has been dead 10 years - Illegitimate". Not sure if that is the case here. It's possible that if William Bedford died in 1875 that James Early could be the father of Annie and then married Jane a year or 2 later.

PS: I checked and couldn't see any William Bedford born to a Tyson mother anywhere at the time between 1861-1865. Not sure who William son of William is from the will probate...

Also...I can see no birth on the GRO for for any Martha Bedford with mother Busby or even any that looked like possibilities. There is nothing in Ireland. Of course as these things go there is a coincidental Martha Ann Bedford in Scotland born in 1879 ... I don't remember buying it but I had in the past and it is not the M.A. Bedford we are speaking about. That does leave the 1879 Holbeck

attached the probate info for William Bedford who died september 31 1875

7
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Help please to find parents/siblings of Margaret HICK/S of Selby
« on: Monday 03 June 24 22:27 BST (UK)  »
I see now that Thomas Bedford did have a son named John born 1834 ... he apparently went to Australia in 1860 and became a school-master. Not sure if he came back to Selby in 1866/67 or why Elisabeth Bedford would state John as father on her docs.

Attached:  death of Elisabeth Bedford 1921. Father: John Bedford

8
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Help please to find parents/siblings of Margaret HICK/S of Selby
« on: Monday 03 June 24 22:00 BST (UK)  »
Hello. I'm late to reply to this thread. I've read it many times as I have interest in Margaret Hick and Bedford's as well. My relative is Annie Bedford born 1879. It's hard to come by information on her and I had to dig hard and deep to come up with what I have.

I know through marriage and death documents that she was born in England in 1879 to William Bedford -railway guard and Jane Busby. That couple had several other girls in Selby/Leeds area of Yorkshire. Elisabeth , Martha , Ada , Edith  Margaret ... can all be seen on the GRO but no Annie in 1879. There is an entry for an Ann Bedford with mother listed as Bedford 1879 at Holbeck and I used to think that "must be" her... but now I when I look on the GRO there are other births in Holbeck around the time named Bedford with mother Bedford... meanwhile Jane Busby did have a daughter with William Bedford in 1875 named Louisa born in Selby.

Now for the mystery...

William Bedford railway guard was a widow when he married Jane Busby in 1866 (I have the marriage doc). As mentioned above William died young in 1875 at age 37 in Selby. To me it proves that Thomas Bedford joiner is William's father  which is great to know... but it opens up a can of worms...

How can William Bedford railwayman die in 1875 and father Annie Bedford in 1879? Although the records in Scotland say he is her father...

So then I checked other known daughters of Jane Busby and William Bedford. Starting with Elisabeth born 1867. It took me a while but I found her in Ireland marrying a Henry English in Londonderry.

the marriage of Elisabeth Bedford 1890 Londonderry:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10707/5903338.pdf

As you can see the father she listed is John Bedford labourer and the mother Jane Busby. On her death in Scotland 1921 Elizabeth Bedford's documentation said widow of Henry English , daughter of Jane Busby and John Bedford...

This leads me to wonder if William Bedford 1838-1875 had a brother John?
Could Annie Bedford 1879's  father actually be John Bedford like Elisabeth's?

Seeing proof here that William Bedford the railway guard born 1838 died at age 37 in 1875... changed everything for me. Then I found reference to John Bedford fathering Elisabeth. Now I'm not sure if I am related to William Bedford or his parents Thomas and Margaret Hick. It would be interesting to compare DNA. At least one person who is a descendant of Thomas and Margret did not show any DNA connection to me. I realize DNA can be slippery though.

Anyhow , any help appreciated in any of this. Especially finding Annie Bedford's 1879 birth , potentially who her father was if it's true William Bedford died in 1875. Any information on the Bedford's of Selby mentioned early in this thread would be appreciated. Thanks.


 

9
Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs / Re: 1820 family gravestone
« on: Saturday 11 May 24 23:03 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for the comments and help.

Sinclair's Hill is a tiny hamlet and this Robert middlemist's sons and grandsons were all joiners. I figured wright might be cartwright but I wasn't sure and so thought i'd ask.

Cheers

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