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Messages - antipas

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1
London and Middlesex / Re: James William Ogden
« on: Friday 15 April 11 19:42 BST (UK)  »
I have now had further information from The Children's Society Records and Archives Centre, about William Leo Ogden, son of James William, and stepson of Susan. 
To quote the letter:

'The application for William to be received into the care of the Waifs and Strays Society (as the Children's Society was formerly known) was made by Miss Edith Miles, the Honorary Secretary of the Leicester Home for Boys. On 5 December 1890 she wrote to the Secretary of the Waifs and Strays Society:
"A boy named William Ogden was brought to the Leicester Homes by Mr Morris, a member of the Local Committee, on November 12th. Mr Morris had found the boy in a low lodging house in Leicester. The boy stated that his mother died in a lodging house at Wellingborough about three months ago and that his father died about ten months ago.
The boy was employed for about a fortnight in Hinchley*, he said (and this was found to be true) by a travelling photographer who told him to come to his shop in Leicester, but when he reached there he was fold he was not wanted.
Enquiry was made through the police at Welling borough and it was found that the boy had lived there in lodging houses, once or twice during the last six months and he got his living by running errands, but it was untrue that his mother died in a lodging house at Welling borough.
The boy admitted that his father was alive and that his stepmother lived at Northampton. The Northampton police were communicated with, and letters from them are enclosed. The Matron of the Boys' Home feels that the boy is not really bad and that he has been cruelly treated by his stepmother and that has been the cause of his leaving his father's house. She is sure with proper management he would turn out a very good boy.
We feel quite certain the boy will not return to his father if he is sent, in consequence of his step¬mother's ill-treatment; if possible we should very much like to keep the boy and I shall be much obliged if you will tell me if the Executive Committee would be likely to entertain the case. If you think they would, I will at once get an application form filled up as far as possible."
Edith Miles enclosed two letters from the Chief Constable for the Borough of Northampton. The first, dated 21 November 1890 stated: "I have to inform you that enquiries have been made respecting this boy's statement and it is found that his father, William Ogden, left here on the 17th instant with his employer to do some paving in Wales, but his wife (the boy's stepmother) has not been informed of his address at present. She states that she was married to Ogden about seven years ago, at Praed St. Church, Camden Town, London. The boy has run away from home several times and on the 3rd September last was sent home from Dr. Barnardo's home in London, he had then been away about five weeks ... His friends are too poor to pay his fare to Northampton but will give him a home if he is sent."
The second letter from the Chief Constable is dated 28 November 1890: "I have to inform you that this boy's father and stepmother are now residing at 8 Jubilee Terrace, L1andudno, North Wales. Nothing is known against them but they are in poor circumstances ... The boy was in some workhouse in London about twelve months ago ... His stepmother does not attend to him as perhaps she ought." '
*Should be Hinckley, I think.

This is not very creditable to stepmother Susan, I'm afraid, but we do not have her side of it.  The application (1890) mentioned other children of James William and his first wife Sophia:
Barnaby Ogden, address Clerkenwell, age 15, earning 10 shillings weekly;
Annie Ogden, Hammersmith, 20, rugmaker;
Frances Beasley, Brixton, age not given, married.

This is very helpful to me and I will write and thank the Children's Society.  It does give a picture of people going out of their way to rescue and help this waif - a rather different picture of the one often painted of children's homes.  The Children's Society only supplies copies of the documents to the original people they concern.

Trevor




2
London and Middlesex / Re: James William Ogden
« on: Tuesday 09 November 10 09:05 GMT (UK)  »
Does that mean great-great-great-great grandparents?  JW and Sophie are only my great grandparents.  I suppose that means we are second half-cousins three times removed! 

I will keep you in touch with any info I get

Trevor

3
London and Middlesex / Re: James William Ogden
« on: Monday 08 November 10 18:50 GMT (UK)  »
OK, I have written to the Childrens Society and asked for a summary of WL's file, which is all they will supply to a relative, and they say it may takes some months.  I will let you know what the outcome is, esp if it sheds light on the rest of the family. 

What's your connection?  Are you descended from James William and Susan?

I will let you know if I get any more info.

Trevor


4
London and Middlesex / Re: James William Ogden
« on: Wednesday 03 November 10 12:11 GMT (UK)  »
Here is William Leo's gordon Boys admission form

Trevor

5
London and Middlesex / Re: James William Ogden
« on: Wednesday 03 November 10 12:03 GMT (UK)  »
Dear Mary

The first thing I have to say is that I have not done much in finding ancestors and am pretty ignorant about it, but can add a bit to your info.  My interest was mainly to reconstruct something of my grandfather’s story (William Leo Ogden’s).  He was killed in WWI in 1915, when my father was 3, and his wife died in 1949, and my father died in 1963, so there is little direct family contact.  There was however a family tradition that WL’s mother had died, his father had married again, WL was turned out and went to the Gordon Boys School at Bagshot and later joined the army.

Surprisingly, in essence the story seems to be true.  From what is now Gordon’s School, I got WL’s admission record and army information.

The admission record is dated 5 Dec 1892.  His age is reported as 14, which agrees with his birth record (see below).  It says that WL’s father is still alive and his mother dead.  WL’s father is stated to be William Ogden, occupation pavier (“wages not stated”), and his address as 8 Jubilee Terrace, Landudno.  This address is somewhat surprising in view of your info that Clara Elizabeth was born in Northampton in Sept 1891 and that William James died there in 1893. 

The admission record gives the following as WL’s siblings.  No addresses are given for them.
Annie Ogden, aged 20, dressmaker.  According to the 1881 census info she should have been about 28.
Barnaby Ogden, aged 15, earning 10 shillings a week as a pavier.  According to the 1881 census info he should have been about 17.
Fanny Beesley is stated to be a married sister, no age given – she is presumably not seen as a possible source of support for WL.  It seems likely that this was Frances M (1871 census), who by 1892 would have been about 30.
There is no mention of Susan or her children, but that is not surprising, because the interest in wages implies I think that the purpose of this info is to establish that WL is really a poor orphan and qualified to enter the Gordon Boy’s Home, so step-mothers presumably didn’t count.  No mention of James H, either, who from the 1881 census would have been about 25 by 1892, but perhaps he had died between 1881 and then.

Why was William James in Llandudno in Dec 1892 if Susan was in Northampton?  Being a pavier was presumably an itinerant occupation and perhaps he was there temporarily for work.  You said Clara was born in Northampton in Sept 1891, but that only tells us where Susan was – maybe WJ was already in Llandudno and only visiting Northampton sometimes (and to die in 1893).  But does this help explain why you can’t find them in the 1891 census?

There are a couple of points of interest about WL’s birth.  His birth certificate gives his date of birth as 28 May 1878, but his Gordon Boys admission record says that he was born 12 May 1878.  Presumably he knew when his birthday was.  The birth was registered by Sophia on 27 June.  I wonder perhaps whether births had to be registered within a month and she was late and therefore mis-stated the date of birth.  The birth place is said to 82 Castle Rd, Kentish Town.  Sophia’s address at registration is 7 Lismore Gardens, Kentish Town.

Returning to the admission record, WL was admitted from “Boy’s Farm Home, Standon Bridge” (Staffordshire).  This was an orphanage run by the Church of England Waifs and Strays (now the Children’s Society).  The Gordon Boys admission record does not say how long he had been there, but it does say that he was baptized at Standon, Eccleshall, date not given.  Perhaps the home had him baptized locally when he arrived, but he might have been any age.

I don’t expect that WL is in your main line of interest, but briefly his subsequent history is as follows.  He was only at the Gordon Boys Home 15 months, entering the army in April 1894 at the age of 15 years and 11 months.  He was in the army for about 12 years, left and married a girl three years his senior in 1907.  They had two surviving sons, one of which was my father, Arthur George.  He went back in the army at the start of the war and was killed at Festubert, 15 May 1915, just after his 37th birthday.

You mention in your posting of 8 May 10, at 1623, that you have heard from someone who has William at Chapel Brampton.  This is close to Northampton.  Which William did you think this could be, William James or his father?

I am of course very interested in any other info you can give.  Although family tradition said that WJ had married again, I had no idea when or to whom, or whether there were any half-siblings, until I read this string.

I tried to attach a jpg of the admssion record, but it is too big.  I will try to reduce it.

Best wishes
Trevor Ogden (middle name Leo!)

6
London and Middlesex / Re: James William Ogden
« on: Tuesday 02 November 10 15:36 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Mary

I came across the William James Ogden string while I was thinking about ancestors and should have been doing something else.  He was my great-grandfather, through William Leo, ie his first marriage.  Can't write mor now but will be in touch later.

Trevor

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